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NEW DBZ MOVIE 2015: Fukkatsu no F (Warning: Spoilers in Topic)
Topic Started: Jul 15 2014, 04:56 AM (364,115 Views)
+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans
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魔王子

Dark Matter
Apr 26 2015, 04:28 PM
I'm pretty sure Beerus said he was only using 70% of his power. It first started off with Goku using 80% then they got serious and then in the end we got that 70% part.

I believe your comparing the 6 and 10 Toriyama gave to Goku and Beerus respectfully.
Whis said Beerus used up to 70% of his power. If Godku is 6 and Beerus is 10, Godku is only as strong as 60% of Beerus's strength.
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Southern Gothic
Apr 26 2015, 04:40 PM
Ssj3vegito96
Apr 26 2015, 04:01 PM
Do you guys think goku and vegeta will ever surpass beerus and whis? For some reason I feel like out of respect for those characters toriyama won't let that happen or at least for a long time
I personally believe we are going to get Gogeta or Vegetto in the next movie. The mention of fusion in BoG, as well as F stressing the fact that Goku and Vegeta need to work together more, leads me to believe Toriyama is building up to that.
God gogeta! YES
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

I don't really understand. Godku vs more or less rivaling Beerus when they fought. Wouldn't that mean that Goku was more or less rivaling Beerus 70% power?
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魔王子

Dark Matter
Apr 26 2015, 04:52 PM
I don't really understand. Godku vs more or less rivaling Beerus when they fought. Wouldn't that mean that Goku was more or less rivaling Beerus 70% power?
Rivaling doesn't mean he's equal to that 70%, what's more, he used up to that amount, so who's to say his Sphere of Destruction wasn't that 70% power Whis spoke of.
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Wasn't it that goku started using 100% when beerus started using 70%? He started using 70% when he said boosted his speed up I thought
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superperfectnerd
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ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Apr 26 2015, 04:27 PM
Dark Matter
Apr 26 2015, 04:03 PM
SSJ God Goku alone was already 70% of Beerus power...I'm surprised Bluper Saiyan Goku wasn't already stronger.
Godku is 60% of Beerus according to Toriyama, and I'm sure SSJGSSJ Goku is stronger than himself from Battle of Gods.
superperfectnerd
 
To be fair we've already explored Goku and Vegeta's weaknesses before now. Arrogance and overconfidence for Vegeta is usually met with a crippling defeat but it seems like it will take Whis actually pointing it out to him as well as his death/second planet loss at the hands of Freeza. Goku never really gets punished for his, which is why I guess he's the one who's described as more overconfident now, he always wins in the end, so he's the one susceptible to a sneak attack. But Piccolo already called his bulls*** warmongering fighting boner when Gohan's lungs were being crushed by Cell and it didn't stick then.

Their pride was overcome when they fused and in BOG, especially for Vegeta. The only revelation is Whis telling Vegeta he needs to rest up after training...which is essentially what Goku told him years prior regarding the ROSAT.

If this is the result of Toriyama going through with giving Vegeta the 'main role', then it's a little underwhelming. I'm not saying it'll be a bad movie, I'm still super excited. I'm just voicing my opinion on what I've heard thus far.

They were highlighted, but there's never been an attempt to correct them. Goku's and Vegeta's love for battle isn't a weakness, it's a strength. It's the reason Goku and Vegeta the one's with the ability to fight bigger and badder opponents. The problem's are what Whis highlighted. Goku is too laid back and Vegeta is too slow to react.

Anyone would set aside their pride in the face of impossible odds. Vegeta knew he couldn't beat Boo and he knew he couldn't beat Beerus. Vegeta will always be proud, but will set that pride aside if need be. In the case of this film, it really wasn't necessary, at least in his mind. As for Vegeta needing to rest up more, that was stated by Goku during the Artificial Human arc. Vegeta wants get stronger his way. As it stands now, maybe he'll listen this time.

Toriyama never confirmed that he was going to give Vegeta the lead role in this film. He said that's what he wanted to do 2 years ago. Things change.
I agree with you that they haven't been pointed out that much before, which always struck me as weird but occasionally somebody would pipe up and hopefully they'll realise that it was only thanks to Whis that they didn't fail massively and it'll have ramifications for the next movie.

Vegeta's too slow to react? I don't get that. That's never been a thing. I understand the training thing. His training consists of torturing himself and never fully taking the time to re-cooperate, not only that but always training alone and never having a master to instruct him. But I don't understand why that would make him slow to react.

I agree minds change, but what I'm not hoping is that this ISN'T Toriyama changing his mind and this is what he considers Vegeta being the main protagonist. Because if that's the case...then it's underwhelming considering not only was Goku just as strong but he had forst crack at the villain, weakened him and left Vegeta to clean up to then be the one to kill the villain anyway. And yes I know the fighting isn't the only thing, Vegeta may have some better 'character moments' but Vegeta has always had better development than Goku so what's new there?
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魔王子

Ssj3vegito96
Apr 26 2015, 05:16 PM
Wasn't it that goku started using 100% when beerus started using 70%? He started using 70% when he said boosted his speed up I thought
No, that isn't stated at all. This is what is said:
Quote:
 
Context: Beerus is reflecting on the battle he had on Earth
Beerus: “I guess that was kind of fun. I have to admit, his[Goku’s] latent ability is something unfathomable. Although, I wouldn’t call him an arch-rival.”
Whis: “Even so, it’s been a long time since I’ve seen you have to use 70% of your power, lord Beerus.”
Beerus: “What was his name again?”
Whis: “Son Goku.”
Beerus: “Between him and Vegeta, they really might become my arch-rivals before too long, huh?”
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Apr 26 2015, 05:31 PM.
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superperfectnerd
Apr 26 2015, 05:17 PM
ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Apr 26 2015, 04:27 PM
Dark Matter
Apr 26 2015, 04:03 PM
SSJ God Goku alone was already 70% of Beerus power...I'm surprised Bluper Saiyan Goku wasn't already stronger.
Godku is 60% of Beerus according to Toriyama, and I'm sure SSJGSSJ Goku is stronger than himself from Battle of Gods.
superperfectnerd
 
To be fair we've already explored Goku and Vegeta's weaknesses before now. Arrogance and overconfidence for Vegeta is usually met with a crippling defeat but it seems like it will take Whis actually pointing it out to him as well as his death/second planet loss at the hands of Freeza. Goku never really gets punished for his, which is why I guess he's the one who's described as more overconfident now, he always wins in the end, so he's the one susceptible to a sneak attack. But Piccolo already called his bulls*** warmongering fighting boner when Gohan's lungs were being crushed by Cell and it didn't stick then.

Their pride was overcome when they fused and in BOG, especially for Vegeta. The only revelation is Whis telling Vegeta he needs to rest up after training...which is essentially what Goku told him years prior regarding the ROSAT.

If this is the result of Toriyama going through with giving Vegeta the 'main role', then it's a little underwhelming. I'm not saying it'll be a bad movie, I'm still super excited. I'm just voicing my opinion on what I've heard thus far.

They were highlighted, but there's never been an attempt to correct them. Goku's and Vegeta's love for battle isn't a weakness, it's a strength. It's the reason Goku and Vegeta the one's with the ability to fight bigger and badder opponents. The problem's are what Whis highlighted. Goku is too laid back and Vegeta is too slow to react.

Anyone would set aside their pride in the face of impossible odds. Vegeta knew he couldn't beat Boo and he knew he couldn't beat Beerus. Vegeta will always be proud, but will set that pride aside if need be. In the case of this film, it really wasn't necessary, at least in his mind. As for Vegeta needing to rest up more, that was stated by Goku during the Artificial Human arc. Vegeta wants get stronger his way. As it stands now, maybe he'll listen this time.

Toriyama never confirmed that he was going to give Vegeta the lead role in this film. He said that's what he wanted to do 2 years ago. Things change.
I agree with you that they haven't been pointed out that much before, which always struck me as weird but occasionally somebody would pipe up and hopefully they'll realise that it was only thanks to Whis that they didn't fail massively and it'll have ramifications for the next movie.

Vegeta's too slow to react? I don't get that. That's never been a thing. I understand the training thing. His training consists of torturing himself and never fully taking the time to re-cooperate, not only that but always training alone and never having a master to instruct him. But I don't understand why that would make him slow to react.

I agree minds change, but what I'm not hoping is that this ISN'T Toriyama changing his mind and this is what he considers Vegeta being the main protagonist. Because if that's the case...then it's underwhelming considering not only was Goku just as strong but he had forst crack at the villain, weakened him and left Vegeta to clean up to then be the one to kill the villain anyway. And yes I know the fighting isn't the only thing, Vegeta may have some better 'character moments' but Vegeta has always had better development than Goku so what's new there?
If you go off their clip, i would guess you can point to the fact Vegeta literally is reacting to Frieza attacking him. Goku is the one charging in head first, while Vegeta sits back and lets him attack and then reacts. It's like Vegeta vs Pui Pui, he literally stands in a straight line and lets him bring the attack to him and counters as he calculates what comes next. Goku on the other hand behaves how he did a Recoome most battles, in your face without a thought or care in the world. Slow to react to me means thinks s*** over too much like he's doing math in his head when he picks where to punch/kick
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GokuBlaze
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I see it as goku just not rivaling frieza. I'm sure frieza was able to just destroy goku but like everyone else good or bad they get cocky. So that's what I think prolonged it. And then I think f got the best and then vegeta stepped in and just picked up on gokus mistakes and whooped him.
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Goddess Ultimecia
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Wait, does does Freeza have god ki or is his transformation using normal ki?
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Canis Latrans
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Godly Power

Heres a Theory so Daizenshuu 2 says that freezas 4th form has immeasurable potenial maybe freeza brought out his potential?

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Why Goku destroys superman!
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魔王子

Squall Leonheart
Apr 27 2015, 11:51 PM
Wait, does does Freeza have god ki or is his transformation using normal ki?
It's regular ol' Ki as far as I know.
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hellobooboo
Apr 28 2015, 12:53 AM
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GokuBlaze
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Basically then frieza doesn't have very good fighting stamina
Goku is #1
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