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NEW DBZ MOVIE 2015: Fukkatsu no F (Warning: Spoilers in Topic)
Topic Started: Jul 15 2014, 04:56 AM (364,178 Views)
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Roy
Mar 31 2015, 06:29 PM
Quote:
 
Did anyone else feel like I came from a place above any of you, other than Roy? I don't just accept whatever Akira offers up. I've had numerous issues with so many things throughout the anime, but I accepted them, moved on because ultimately those opinions I had on the issues I had to begin with, won't change anything. Why dwell on things like that? Have your issues, fine. But don't be petty and ungrateful, and sh*t on every little detail you have an issue with.

I can't see anything 'stupid' in what I said with the post you had an issue with from me, not a thing. Maybe if I came from a place where the intent was to insult any of you, Roy I would understand why you reacted in the way that you did. There was no ill intent, and it's only been you so far that saw something wrong in what I said.


I'm not sure if I can take that claim at face value. From what I read, you were pretty confrontational with pretty much everyone who didn't like the movie with this post.

Quote:
 
I just can't shake how ridiculous some people's reasons for being against this movie, its plot, characters, choice of villain, setting, progression of the SSJGod form, sounds. I mean. It is no stretch at all to say that the fanbase of Dragon Ball/Z are some of the most selfish and demanding of any anime there is, including Naruto and One Piece. This fanbase would make me want to extend a huge f*ck you to the people that support it for always wanting to b*tch about every single thing, or the small details not liked. Why can't people just be grateful, even if you don't like what is being offered up? Akira had always meant to continue this anime, on his terms and when he was ready to do so. Yes. Akira is working with people to make these movies so he may not have say over every single thing, however I am more then certain that he still has the majority over say and control because it is his manga/anime at the end of the day. No company can just do something with the anime without Akira and his consent, which is how GT came to be in the first place, so far as I know.

I'm just annoyed with all of this complaining, it is so childish and makes this fanbase look like every last thing people call it that's of an insulting nature. Me? I am just happy, excited, grateful, and hopeful that Akira decided to finally pick this anime back up and develop the story beyond where he stopped it while he focused on other ventures.

Don't like what you've read of the new movie? Good for you, don't watch it. You're one or a few disapproving people of millions of supporters anyway. So you're more or less irrelevant. How any of us feel this move or the last one should have played it, is not at all of importance. Akira sees things another way as well as those he's partnered with to make these movies. Who are we but demanding, selfish fans to say otherwise of a mans creation? He's doing this for us, and most likely himself too.

I don't expect this to stop the complaining, in fact I know it won't and I also know it'll likely leave some of you not liking me as much as you may have prior to this post. But someone had to say it, someone had to point it out. Like it or leave it.


And for the record, I don't care if people like this movie or not. What does bother me however is when they insist that we shouldn't complain because that's the mentality of an apologist. If theirs glaring flaws in the movie such as the one were discussing, of course theirs going to be criticisms of the film. If you can't handle that, then I don't know what to say to you. Just don't come out and try to talk down to others because they don't like the movie.

Quote:
 
Of course Akira is making money off of these films. So you pointing that out, is a moot point with no significance. Money will be made, it's a given.


The movie is being made because DBZ generates a s*it load of money for Akira and Toei. That's pretty much why DBZ is still going on.

Quote:
 
Maybe ask me what my post was intended to be, before dissecting it or interpreting things that aren't there. I am more than happy to explain myself if something doesn't sound right to someone. When you attack me like you did, the only person that gets put in a negative light, is the one pointing the finger.


See first point.

Quote:
 
Water under the bridge though Roy, so let's just move on from this and talk about the movie.


I'd like that as well but i'm not going to stand for the mentality of "like it and don't complain". Sorry for saying all of this but this is the thing that really grinds my gears for not only DBZ but every single fanbase i've seen.
Dude, it's all fine, we don't need to keep discussing what you didn't like about what I said. It's noted, in my brain. But I'm telling you that you're taking away things from my post that aren't there, namely the part about it seeking confrontation.

Let's just move forward Roy, we can talk about the movie instead of a squabble between us haha.
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Nagito Komaeda
Mar 31 2015, 06:25 PM
Y'know, I think it's kinda funny to say that people are really ungrateful. Here we are, posting on a forum that's dedicated Dragonball Z, some of us with thousands of posts under our belt. We obviously have some form of love for the series, otherwise we wouldn't be here talking about statements, feats, characters and fights in such excruciating detail. People saying that they hate a lot of what the new movie does is completely valid. We got a plot synopsis from people who had an early viewing of it. No matter what you say, we know what happens. Going to see it in the cinema isn't going to suddenly change the details of the plot; we've got a pretty good idea of the events. The only things we don't know are the proper context and translations of certain statements and, as you can see, we're withholding judgement when it comes to that until we see the movie with our own eyes.

An individual's complaint means nothing? To Toriyama, maybe, but it has so much meaning for everyone else. Using the logic of it not being able to change anything, you can silence any and all minority opinions on a topic. People have to make complaints, otherwise we'd have nothing to discuss. It's good to have your views challenged; it makes you reflect on them and either strengthen them, or change them. So I don't care if my opinion doesn't change anything, I'm going to put it forward in order to create debate and discussion.
You have a good point, however seeing it in cinema may well make a difference, I've read up on many, many movies and games and thought I'd dislike them and yet the experience themselves proved very different even if I knew what was going to happen. For instance, I knew what the mid-credits scene of The Hangover 3 was before I saw it, but it didn't stop me laughing myself to tears upon seeing it.

Likewise, critique is always good, but my point is that people don't do that, and it's never useful, if you look at the majority of "criticisms" here, or elsewhere on the internet, it's "another form? Ew!" or "The hair is blue? That's stupid! Someone's hair turning gold is so much better!" or "Gohan looks stupid" or "I'm not seeing this movie, Vegeta didn't win."

Those are incredibly stupid reasons to not see a movie, people go around crying like it's traumatic and vowing that they hate the movie despite the fact they haven't actually seen it in motion and also promise to never give themselves the chance to like it anyway.

The point of having an opinion is obvious, but if you must speak it then it should actually be worthwhile criticism or a passing mention, "I don't like the blue hair" is not, nor will it ever be, a valid reason to constantly complain and peg a movie as if it's a criminal offense.

As PrinceOfSaiyajins has just said, it's enjoyable for the most part, there's really nothing worth hating besides a time travel gimmick, but even that might be used well enough to be good, we won't know until we actually see the movie. Kei17 is right, bashings by people who haven't seen it are invalid because they don't have enough to base an opinion from, if you hear your neighbour is Muslim do you instantly assume they are terrorists? No, and if you do then you should at least speak to them before you start acting like they're a monster. Same with a movie, it's your experience, not the information someone else provides, that should build your opinion.
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Mar 31 2015, 06:34 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Mar 31 2015, 06:25 PM
Y'know, I think it's kinda funny to say that people are really ungrateful. Here we are, posting on a forum that's dedicated Dragonball Z, some of us with thousands of posts under our belt. We obviously have some form of love for the series, otherwise we wouldn't be here talking about statements, feats, characters and fights in such excruciating detail. People saying that they hate a lot of what the new movie does is completely valid. We got a plot synopsis from people who had an early viewing of it. No matter what you say, we know what happens. Going to see it in the cinema isn't going to suddenly change the details of the plot; we've got a pretty good idea of the events. The only things we don't know are the proper context and translations of certain statements and, as you can see, we're withholding judgement when it comes to that until we see the movie with our own eyes.

An individual's complaint means nothing? To Toriyama, maybe, but it has so much meaning for everyone else. Using the logic of it not being able to change anything, you can silence any and all minority opinions on a topic. People have to make complaints, otherwise we'd have nothing to discuss. It's good to have your views challenged; it makes you reflect on them and either strengthen them, or change them. So I don't care if my opinion doesn't change anything, I'm going to put it forward in order to create debate and discussion.
You have a good point, however seeing it in cinema may well make a difference, I've read up on many, many movies and games and thought I'd dislike them and yet the experience themselves proved very different even if I knew what was going to happen. For instance, I knew what the mid-credits scene of The Hangover 3 was before I saw it, but it didn't stop me laughing myself to tears upon seeing it.

Likewise, critique is always good, but my point is that people don't do that, and it's never useful, if you look at the majority of "criticisms" here, or elsewhere on the internet, it's "another form? Ew!" or "The hair is blue? That's stupid! Someone's hair turning gold is so much better!" or "Gohan looks stupid" or "I'm not seeing this movie, Vegeta didn't win."

Those are incredibly stupid reasons to not see a movie, people go around crying like it's traumatic and vowing that they hate the movie despite the fact they haven't actually seen it in motion and also promise to never give themselves the chance to like it anyway.

The point of having an opinion is obvious, but if you must speak it then it should actually be worthwhile criticism or a passing mention, "I don't like the blue hair" is not, nor will it ever be, a valid reason to constantly complain and peg a movie as if it's a criminal offense.

As PrinceOfSaiyajins has just said, it's enjoyable for the most part, there's really nothing worth hating besides a time travel gimmick, but even that might be used well enough to be good, we won't know until we actually see the movie. Kei17 is right, bashings by people who haven't seen it are invalid because they don't have enough to base an opinion from, if you hear your neighbour is Muslim do you instantly assume they are terrorists? No, and if you do then you should at least speak to them before you start acting like they're a monster. Same with a movie, it's your experience, not the information someone else provides, that should build your opinion.
Dead on, my friend. And pretty much exactly what my post was saying.

I think you just worded it better than I did to convey the point clearer.

Don't judge the body of work when you've not even watched it to begin with.
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Arkadom
Mar 31 2015, 06:34 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Mar 31 2015, 06:25 PM
Y'know, I think it's kinda funny to say that people are really ungrateful. Here we are, posting on a forum that's dedicated Dragonball Z, some of us with thousands of posts under our belt. We obviously have some form of love for the series, otherwise we wouldn't be here talking about statements, feats, characters and fights in such excruciating detail. People saying that they hate a lot of what the new movie does is completely valid. We got a plot synopsis from people who had an early viewing of it. No matter what you say, we know what happens. Going to see it in the cinema isn't going to suddenly change the details of the plot; we've got a pretty good idea of the events. The only things we don't know are the proper context and translations of certain statements and, as you can see, we're withholding judgement when it comes to that until we see the movie with our own eyes.

An individual's complaint means nothing? To Toriyama, maybe, but it has so much meaning for everyone else. Using the logic of it not being able to change anything, you can silence any and all minority opinions on a topic. People have to make complaints, otherwise we'd have nothing to discuss. It's good to have your views challenged; it makes you reflect on them and either strengthen them, or change them. So I don't care if my opinion doesn't change anything, I'm going to put it forward in order to create debate and discussion.
You have a good point, however seeing it in cinema may well make a difference, I've read up on many, many movies and games and thought I'd dislike them and yet the experience themselves proved very different even if I knew what was going to happen. For instance, I knew what the mid-credits scene of The Hangover 3 was before I saw it, but it didn't stop me laughing myself to tears upon seeing it.

Likewise, critique is always good, but my point is that people don't do that, and it's never useful, if you look at the majority of "criticisms" here, or elsewhere on the internet, it's "another form? Ew!" or "The hair is blue? That's stupid! Someone's hair turning gold is so much better!" or "Gohan looks stupid" or "I'm not seeing this movie, Vegeta didn't win."

Those are incredibly stupid reasons to not see a movie, people go around crying like it's traumatic and vowing that they hate the movie despite the fact they haven't actually seen it in motion and also promise to never give themselves the chance to like it anyway.

The point of having an opinion is obvious, but if you must speak it then it should actually be worthwhile criticism or a passing mention, "I don't like the blue hair" is not, nor will it ever be, a valid reason to constantly complain and peg a movie as if it's a criminal offense.

As PrinceOfSaiyajins has just said, it's enjoyable for the most part, there's really nothing worth hating besides a time travel gimmick, but even that might be used well enough to be good, we won't know until we actually see the movie. Kei17 is right, bashings by people who haven't seen it are invalid because they don't have enough to base an opinion from, if you hear your neighbour is Muslim do you instantly assume they are terrorists? No, and if you do then you should at least speak to them before you start acting like they're a monster. Same with a movie, it's your experience, not the information someone else provides, that should build your opinion.
Fair point, but unless the people who were reporting their thoughts and posting a plot synopsis were lying to us, we know what happens in the movie. We don't know the exact details, but we know that X beats Y using Z, and that information is enough to form a decent criticism. What we've been criticising (and complaining about) are facts that aren't going to change between now and the theatrical release of the film. When it comes to other things, such as the appearance of certain characters, or the implications of a certain statement, I agree with you fully. We should wait until we actually see it for ourselves. When it comes to the plot, however, we already know what happens and can be critical of it.
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Mar 31 2015, 06:33 PM
Roy
Mar 31 2015, 06:29 PM
Quote:
 
Did anyone else feel like I came from a place above any of you, other than Roy? I don't just accept whatever Akira offers up. I've had numerous issues with so many things throughout the anime, but I accepted them, moved on because ultimately those opinions I had on the issues I had to begin with, won't change anything. Why dwell on things like that? Have your issues, fine. But don't be petty and ungrateful, and sh*t on every little detail you have an issue with.

I can't see anything 'stupid' in what I said with the post you had an issue with from me, not a thing. Maybe if I came from a place where the intent was to insult any of you, Roy I would understand why you reacted in the way that you did. There was no ill intent, and it's only been you so far that saw something wrong in what I said.


I'm not sure if I can take that claim at face value. From what I read, you were pretty confrontational with pretty much everyone who didn't like the movie with this post.

Quote:
 
I just can't shake how ridiculous some people's reasons for being against this movie, its plot, characters, choice of villain, setting, progression of the SSJGod form, sounds. I mean. It is no stretch at all to say that the fanbase of Dragon Ball/Z are some of the most selfish and demanding of any anime there is, including Naruto and One Piece. This fanbase would make me want to extend a huge f*ck you to the people that support it for always wanting to b*tch about every single thing, or the small details not liked. Why can't people just be grateful, even if you don't like what is being offered up? Akira had always meant to continue this anime, on his terms and when he was ready to do so. Yes. Akira is working with people to make these movies so he may not have say over every single thing, however I am more then certain that he still has the majority over say and control because it is his manga/anime at the end of the day. No company can just do something with the anime without Akira and his consent, which is how GT came to be in the first place, so far as I know.

I'm just annoyed with all of this complaining, it is so childish and makes this fanbase look like every last thing people call it that's of an insulting nature. Me? I am just happy, excited, grateful, and hopeful that Akira decided to finally pick this anime back up and develop the story beyond where he stopped it while he focused on other ventures.

Don't like what you've read of the new movie? Good for you, don't watch it. You're one or a few disapproving people of millions of supporters anyway. So you're more or less irrelevant. How any of us feel this move or the last one should have played it, is not at all of importance. Akira sees things another way as well as those he's partnered with to make these movies. Who are we but demanding, selfish fans to say otherwise of a mans creation? He's doing this for us, and most likely himself too.

I don't expect this to stop the complaining, in fact I know it won't and I also know it'll likely leave some of you not liking me as much as you may have prior to this post. But someone had to say it, someone had to point it out. Like it or leave it.


And for the record, I don't care if people like this movie or not. What does bother me however is when they insist that we shouldn't complain because that's the mentality of an apologist. If theirs glaring flaws in the movie such as the one were discussing, of course theirs going to be criticisms of the film. If you can't handle that, then I don't know what to say to you. Just don't come out and try to talk down to others because they don't like the movie.

Quote:
 
Of course Akira is making money off of these films. So you pointing that out, is a moot point with no significance. Money will be made, it's a given.


The movie is being made because DBZ generates a s*it load of money for Akira and Toei. That's pretty much why DBZ is still going on.

Quote:
 
Maybe ask me what my post was intended to be, before dissecting it or interpreting things that aren't there. I am more than happy to explain myself if something doesn't sound right to someone. When you attack me like you did, the only person that gets put in a negative light, is the one pointing the finger.


See first point.

Quote:
 
Water under the bridge though Roy, so let's just move on from this and talk about the movie.


I'd like that as well but i'm not going to stand for the mentality of "like it and don't complain". Sorry for saying all of this but this is the thing that really grinds my gears for not only DBZ but every single fanbase i've seen.
Dude, it's all fine, we don't need to keep discussing what you didn't like about what I said. It's noted, in my brain. But I'm telling you that you're taking away things from my post that aren't there, namely the part about it seeking confrontation.

Let's just move forward Roy, we can talk about the movie instead of a squabble between us haha.
I wasn't doing that man. I just wanted to address this problem that I see from almost every fanbase I see on the web. If I was confrontational as well (which I probably was), than I apologize. I just think people need to respect the opinions of others with things like these.
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Arkadom
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Nagito Komaeda
Mar 31 2015, 06:38 PM
Arkadom
Mar 31 2015, 06:34 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Mar 31 2015, 06:25 PM
Y'know, I think it's kinda funny to say that people are really ungrateful. Here we are, posting on a forum that's dedicated Dragonball Z, some of us with thousands of posts under our belt. We obviously have some form of love for the series, otherwise we wouldn't be here talking about statements, feats, characters and fights in such excruciating detail. People saying that they hate a lot of what the new movie does is completely valid. We got a plot synopsis from people who had an early viewing of it. No matter what you say, we know what happens. Going to see it in the cinema isn't going to suddenly change the details of the plot; we've got a pretty good idea of the events. The only things we don't know are the proper context and translations of certain statements and, as you can see, we're withholding judgement when it comes to that until we see the movie with our own eyes.

An individual's complaint means nothing? To Toriyama, maybe, but it has so much meaning for everyone else. Using the logic of it not being able to change anything, you can silence any and all minority opinions on a topic. People have to make complaints, otherwise we'd have nothing to discuss. It's good to have your views challenged; it makes you reflect on them and either strengthen them, or change them. So I don't care if my opinion doesn't change anything, I'm going to put it forward in order to create debate and discussion.
You have a good point, however seeing it in cinema may well make a difference, I've read up on many, many movies and games and thought I'd dislike them and yet the experience themselves proved very different even if I knew what was going to happen. For instance, I knew what the mid-credits scene of The Hangover 3 was before I saw it, but it didn't stop me laughing myself to tears upon seeing it.

Likewise, critique is always good, but my point is that people don't do that, and it's never useful, if you look at the majority of "criticisms" here, or elsewhere on the internet, it's "another form? Ew!" or "The hair is blue? That's stupid! Someone's hair turning gold is so much better!" or "Gohan looks stupid" or "I'm not seeing this movie, Vegeta didn't win."

Those are incredibly stupid reasons to not see a movie, people go around crying like it's traumatic and vowing that they hate the movie despite the fact they haven't actually seen it in motion and also promise to never give themselves the chance to like it anyway.

The point of having an opinion is obvious, but if you must speak it then it should actually be worthwhile criticism or a passing mention, "I don't like the blue hair" is not, nor will it ever be, a valid reason to constantly complain and peg a movie as if it's a criminal offense.

As PrinceOfSaiyajins has just said, it's enjoyable for the most part, there's really nothing worth hating besides a time travel gimmick, but even that might be used well enough to be good, we won't know until we actually see the movie. Kei17 is right, bashings by people who haven't seen it are invalid because they don't have enough to base an opinion from, if you hear your neighbour is Muslim do you instantly assume they are terrorists? No, and if you do then you should at least speak to them before you start acting like they're a monster. Same with a movie, it's your experience, not the information someone else provides, that should build your opinion.
Fair point, but unless the people who were reporting their thoughts and posting a plot synopsis were lying to us, we know what happens in the movie. We don't know the exact details, but we know that X beats Y using Z, and that information is enough to form a decent criticism. What we've been criticising (and complaining about) are facts that aren't going to change between now and the theatrical release of the film. When it comes to other things, such as the appearance of certain characters, or the implications of a certain statement, I agree with you fully. We should wait until we actually see it for ourselves. When it comes to the plot, however, we already know what happens and can be critical of it.
Totally, agree, and some here have made worthwhile and accurate criticisms, but those who bark loudest and start debates tend to be the ones flaunting a worthless argument, a la the blue hair or the name of a form.

The plot of the movie is subjective to how people take it, as I've said experience is different to information, but obviously the details won't change. I'm just saying it's better to go and see it and construct a more viable opinion of the scene or movie instead of disliking something just because you know the end result. X beating Y with Z may not sound good, but the more intricate details are left out, and unless you actually see it yourself you are missing 90% of the events, you may actually love what you would say you hated if you'd only based your opinion on very brief descriptions of events.
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Isn't like most of the movie already revealed? Don't you think that's a good enough basis to judge a movie?

I mean sure, theirs going to be other scenes but the main focus of the movie and what it will revolve around has been leaked on the web already.
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Arkadom
Mar 31 2015, 06:42 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Mar 31 2015, 06:38 PM
Arkadom
Mar 31 2015, 06:34 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Mar 31 2015, 06:25 PM
Y'know, I think it's kinda funny to say that people are really ungrateful. Here we are, posting on a forum that's dedicated Dragonball Z, some of us with thousands of posts under our belt. We obviously have some form of love for the series, otherwise we wouldn't be here talking about statements, feats, characters and fights in such excruciating detail. People saying that they hate a lot of what the new movie does is completely valid. We got a plot synopsis from people who had an early viewing of it. No matter what you say, we know what happens. Going to see it in the cinema isn't going to suddenly change the details of the plot; we've got a pretty good idea of the events. The only things we don't know are the proper context and translations of certain statements and, as you can see, we're withholding judgement when it comes to that until we see the movie with our own eyes.

An individual's complaint means nothing? To Toriyama, maybe, but it has so much meaning for everyone else. Using the logic of it not being able to change anything, you can silence any and all minority opinions on a topic. People have to make complaints, otherwise we'd have nothing to discuss. It's good to have your views challenged; it makes you reflect on them and either strengthen them, or change them. So I don't care if my opinion doesn't change anything, I'm going to put it forward in order to create debate and discussion.
You have a good point, however seeing it in cinema may well make a difference, I've read up on many, many movies and games and thought I'd dislike them and yet the experience themselves proved very different even if I knew what was going to happen. For instance, I knew what the mid-credits scene of The Hangover 3 was before I saw it, but it didn't stop me laughing myself to tears upon seeing it.

Likewise, critique is always good, but my point is that people don't do that, and it's never useful, if you look at the majority of "criticisms" here, or elsewhere on the internet, it's "another form? Ew!" or "The hair is blue? That's stupid! Someone's hair turning gold is so much better!" or "Gohan looks stupid" or "I'm not seeing this movie, Vegeta didn't win."

Those are incredibly stupid reasons to not see a movie, people go around crying like it's traumatic and vowing that they hate the movie despite the fact they haven't actually seen it in motion and also promise to never give themselves the chance to like it anyway.

The point of having an opinion is obvious, but if you must speak it then it should actually be worthwhile criticism or a passing mention, "I don't like the blue hair" is not, nor will it ever be, a valid reason to constantly complain and peg a movie as if it's a criminal offense.

As PrinceOfSaiyajins has just said, it's enjoyable for the most part, there's really nothing worth hating besides a time travel gimmick, but even that might be used well enough to be good, we won't know until we actually see the movie. Kei17 is right, bashings by people who haven't seen it are invalid because they don't have enough to base an opinion from, if you hear your neighbour is Muslim do you instantly assume they are terrorists? No, and if you do then you should at least speak to them before you start acting like they're a monster. Same with a movie, it's your experience, not the information someone else provides, that should build your opinion.
Fair point, but unless the people who were reporting their thoughts and posting a plot synopsis were lying to us, we know what happens in the movie. We don't know the exact details, but we know that X beats Y using Z, and that information is enough to form a decent criticism. What we've been criticising (and complaining about) are facts that aren't going to change between now and the theatrical release of the film. When it comes to other things, such as the appearance of certain characters, or the implications of a certain statement, I agree with you fully. We should wait until we actually see it for ourselves. When it comes to the plot, however, we already know what happens and can be critical of it.
Totally, agree, and some here have made worthwhile and accurate criticisms, but those who bark loudest and start debates tend to be the ones flaunting a worthless argument, a la the blue hair or the name of a form.

The plot of the movie is subjective to how people take it, as I've said experience is different to information, but obviously the details won't change. I'm just saying it's better to go and see it and construct a more viable opinion of the scene or movie instead of disliking something just because you know the end result. X beating Y with Z may not sound good, but the more intricate details are left out, and unless you actually see it yourself you are missing 90% of the events, you may actually love what you would say you hated if you'd only based your opinion on very brief descriptions of events.
Oh, definitely, I'm still holding out hope that they're going to do it in a way that's very enjoyable for me. Some of the things, though, just don't do it for me, however it's going to be presented; e.g

Movie spoilers


No matter how they present that, it's not good to me in the slightest. It's just fundamentally really bad to me, and no amount of polish is going to change it. No matter how it's presented, I'm still going to criticise it on a fundamental level.
Edited by Yu Narukami, Mar 31 2015, 06:48 PM.
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魔王子

Nagito Komaeda
Mar 31 2015, 06:47 PM
Arkadom
Mar 31 2015, 06:42 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Mar 31 2015, 06:38 PM
Arkadom
Mar 31 2015, 06:34 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Mar 31 2015, 06:25 PM
Y'know, I think it's kinda funny to say that people are really ungrateful. Here we are, posting on a forum that's dedicated Dragonball Z, some of us with thousands of posts under our belt. We obviously have some form of love for the series, otherwise we wouldn't be here talking about statements, feats, characters and fights in such excruciating detail. People saying that they hate a lot of what the new movie does is completely valid. We got a plot synopsis from people who had an early viewing of it. No matter what you say, we know what happens. Going to see it in the cinema isn't going to suddenly change the details of the plot; we've got a pretty good idea of the events. The only things we don't know are the proper context and translations of certain statements and, as you can see, we're withholding judgement when it comes to that until we see the movie with our own eyes.

An individual's complaint means nothing? To Toriyama, maybe, but it has so much meaning for everyone else. Using the logic of it not being able to change anything, you can silence any and all minority opinions on a topic. People have to make complaints, otherwise we'd have nothing to discuss. It's good to have your views challenged; it makes you reflect on them and either strengthen them, or change them. So I don't care if my opinion doesn't change anything, I'm going to put it forward in order to create debate and discussion.
You have a good point, however seeing it in cinema may well make a difference, I've read up on many, many movies and games and thought I'd dislike them and yet the experience themselves proved very different even if I knew what was going to happen. For instance, I knew what the mid-credits scene of The Hangover 3 was before I saw it, but it didn't stop me laughing myself to tears upon seeing it.

Likewise, critique is always good, but my point is that people don't do that, and it's never useful, if you look at the majority of "criticisms" here, or elsewhere on the internet, it's "another form? Ew!" or "The hair is blue? That's stupid! Someone's hair turning gold is so much better!" or "Gohan looks stupid" or "I'm not seeing this movie, Vegeta didn't win."

Those are incredibly stupid reasons to not see a movie, people go around crying like it's traumatic and vowing that they hate the movie despite the fact they haven't actually seen it in motion and also promise to never give themselves the chance to like it anyway.

The point of having an opinion is obvious, but if you must speak it then it should actually be worthwhile criticism or a passing mention, "I don't like the blue hair" is not, nor will it ever be, a valid reason to constantly complain and peg a movie as if it's a criminal offense.

As PrinceOfSaiyajins has just said, it's enjoyable for the most part, there's really nothing worth hating besides a time travel gimmick, but even that might be used well enough to be good, we won't know until we actually see the movie. Kei17 is right, bashings by people who haven't seen it are invalid because they don't have enough to base an opinion from, if you hear your neighbour is Muslim do you instantly assume they are terrorists? No, and if you do then you should at least speak to them before you start acting like they're a monster. Same with a movie, it's your experience, not the information someone else provides, that should build your opinion.
Fair point, but unless the people who were reporting their thoughts and posting a plot synopsis were lying to us, we know what happens in the movie. We don't know the exact details, but we know that X beats Y using Z, and that information is enough to form a decent criticism. What we've been criticising (and complaining about) are facts that aren't going to change between now and the theatrical release of the film. When it comes to other things, such as the appearance of certain characters, or the implications of a certain statement, I agree with you fully. We should wait until we actually see it for ourselves. When it comes to the plot, however, we already know what happens and can be critical of it.
Totally, agree, and some here have made worthwhile and accurate criticisms, but those who bark loudest and start debates tend to be the ones flaunting a worthless argument, a la the blue hair or the name of a form.

The plot of the movie is subjective to how people take it, as I've said experience is different to information, but obviously the details won't change. I'm just saying it's better to go and see it and construct a more viable opinion of the scene or movie instead of disliking something just because you know the end result. X beating Y with Z may not sound good, but the more intricate details are left out, and unless you actually see it yourself you are missing 90% of the events, you may actually love what you would say you hated if you'd only based your opinion on very brief descriptions of events.
Oh, definitely, I'm still holding out hope that they're going to do it in a way that's very enjoyable for me. Some of the things, though, just don't do it for me, however it's going to be presented; e.g

Movie spoilers


No matter how they present that, it's not good to me in the slightest. It's just fundamentally really bad to me, and no amount of polish is going to change it. No matter how it's presented, I'm still going to criticise it on a fundamental level.
Spoiler: click to toggle
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ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Mar 31 2015, 06:51 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Mar 31 2015, 06:47 PM
Arkadom
Mar 31 2015, 06:42 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Mar 31 2015, 06:38 PM
Arkadom
Mar 31 2015, 06:34 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Mar 31 2015, 06:25 PM
Y'know, I think it's kinda funny to say that people are really ungrateful. Here we are, posting on a forum that's dedicated Dragonball Z, some of us with thousands of posts under our belt. We obviously have some form of love for the series, otherwise we wouldn't be here talking about statements, feats, characters and fights in such excruciating detail. People saying that they hate a lot of what the new movie does is completely valid. We got a plot synopsis from people who had an early viewing of it. No matter what you say, we know what happens. Going to see it in the cinema isn't going to suddenly change the details of the plot; we've got a pretty good idea of the events. The only things we don't know are the proper context and translations of certain statements and, as you can see, we're withholding judgement when it comes to that until we see the movie with our own eyes.

An individual's complaint means nothing? To Toriyama, maybe, but it has so much meaning for everyone else. Using the logic of it not being able to change anything, you can silence any and all minority opinions on a topic. People have to make complaints, otherwise we'd have nothing to discuss. It's good to have your views challenged; it makes you reflect on them and either strengthen them, or change them. So I don't care if my opinion doesn't change anything, I'm going to put it forward in order to create debate and discussion.
You have a good point, however seeing it in cinema may well make a difference, I've read up on many, many movies and games and thought I'd dislike them and yet the experience themselves proved very different even if I knew what was going to happen. For instance, I knew what the mid-credits scene of The Hangover 3 was before I saw it, but it didn't stop me laughing myself to tears upon seeing it.

Likewise, critique is always good, but my point is that people don't do that, and it's never useful, if you look at the majority of "criticisms" here, or elsewhere on the internet, it's "another form? Ew!" or "The hair is blue? That's stupid! Someone's hair turning gold is so much better!" or "Gohan looks stupid" or "I'm not seeing this movie, Vegeta didn't win."

Those are incredibly stupid reasons to not see a movie, people go around crying like it's traumatic and vowing that they hate the movie despite the fact they haven't actually seen it in motion and also promise to never give themselves the chance to like it anyway.

The point of having an opinion is obvious, but if you must speak it then it should actually be worthwhile criticism or a passing mention, "I don't like the blue hair" is not, nor will it ever be, a valid reason to constantly complain and peg a movie as if it's a criminal offense.

As PrinceOfSaiyajins has just said, it's enjoyable for the most part, there's really nothing worth hating besides a time travel gimmick, but even that might be used well enough to be good, we won't know until we actually see the movie. Kei17 is right, bashings by people who haven't seen it are invalid because they don't have enough to base an opinion from, if you hear your neighbour is Muslim do you instantly assume they are terrorists? No, and if you do then you should at least speak to them before you start acting like they're a monster. Same with a movie, it's your experience, not the information someone else provides, that should build your opinion.
Fair point, but unless the people who were reporting their thoughts and posting a plot synopsis were lying to us, we know what happens in the movie. We don't know the exact details, but we know that X beats Y using Z, and that information is enough to form a decent criticism. What we've been criticising (and complaining about) are facts that aren't going to change between now and the theatrical release of the film. When it comes to other things, such as the appearance of certain characters, or the implications of a certain statement, I agree with you fully. We should wait until we actually see it for ourselves. When it comes to the plot, however, we already know what happens and can be critical of it.
Totally, agree, and some here have made worthwhile and accurate criticisms, but those who bark loudest and start debates tend to be the ones flaunting a worthless argument, a la the blue hair or the name of a form.

The plot of the movie is subjective to how people take it, as I've said experience is different to information, but obviously the details won't change. I'm just saying it's better to go and see it and construct a more viable opinion of the scene or movie instead of disliking something just because you know the end result. X beating Y with Z may not sound good, but the more intricate details are left out, and unless you actually see it yourself you are missing 90% of the events, you may actually love what you would say you hated if you'd only based your opinion on very brief descriptions of events.
Oh, definitely, I'm still holding out hope that they're going to do it in a way that's very enjoyable for me. Some of the things, though, just don't do it for me, however it's going to be presented; e.g

Movie spoilers


No matter how they present that, it's not good to me in the slightest. It's just fundamentally really bad to me, and no amount of polish is going to change it. No matter how it's presented, I'm still going to criticise it on a fundamental level.
Spoiler: click to toggle
Spoiler: click to toggle
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Arkadom
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Bargle nawdle zouss

Nagito Komaeda
Mar 31 2015, 06:47 PM
Arkadom
Mar 31 2015, 06:42 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Mar 31 2015, 06:38 PM
Arkadom
Mar 31 2015, 06:34 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Mar 31 2015, 06:25 PM
Y'know, I think it's kinda funny to say that people are really ungrateful. Here we are, posting on a forum that's dedicated Dragonball Z, some of us with thousands of posts under our belt. We obviously have some form of love for the series, otherwise we wouldn't be here talking about statements, feats, characters and fights in such excruciating detail. People saying that they hate a lot of what the new movie does is completely valid. We got a plot synopsis from people who had an early viewing of it. No matter what you say, we know what happens. Going to see it in the cinema isn't going to suddenly change the details of the plot; we've got a pretty good idea of the events. The only things we don't know are the proper context and translations of certain statements and, as you can see, we're withholding judgement when it comes to that until we see the movie with our own eyes.

An individual's complaint means nothing? To Toriyama, maybe, but it has so much meaning for everyone else. Using the logic of it not being able to change anything, you can silence any and all minority opinions on a topic. People have to make complaints, otherwise we'd have nothing to discuss. It's good to have your views challenged; it makes you reflect on them and either strengthen them, or change them. So I don't care if my opinion doesn't change anything, I'm going to put it forward in order to create debate and discussion.
You have a good point, however seeing it in cinema may well make a difference, I've read up on many, many movies and games and thought I'd dislike them and yet the experience themselves proved very different even if I knew what was going to happen. For instance, I knew what the mid-credits scene of The Hangover 3 was before I saw it, but it didn't stop me laughing myself to tears upon seeing it.

Likewise, critique is always good, but my point is that people don't do that, and it's never useful, if you look at the majority of "criticisms" here, or elsewhere on the internet, it's "another form? Ew!" or "The hair is blue? That's stupid! Someone's hair turning gold is so much better!" or "Gohan looks stupid" or "I'm not seeing this movie, Vegeta didn't win."

Those are incredibly stupid reasons to not see a movie, people go around crying like it's traumatic and vowing that they hate the movie despite the fact they haven't actually seen it in motion and also promise to never give themselves the chance to like it anyway.

The point of having an opinion is obvious, but if you must speak it then it should actually be worthwhile criticism or a passing mention, "I don't like the blue hair" is not, nor will it ever be, a valid reason to constantly complain and peg a movie as if it's a criminal offense.

As PrinceOfSaiyajins has just said, it's enjoyable for the most part, there's really nothing worth hating besides a time travel gimmick, but even that might be used well enough to be good, we won't know until we actually see the movie. Kei17 is right, bashings by people who haven't seen it are invalid because they don't have enough to base an opinion from, if you hear your neighbour is Muslim do you instantly assume they are terrorists? No, and if you do then you should at least speak to them before you start acting like they're a monster. Same with a movie, it's your experience, not the information someone else provides, that should build your opinion.
Fair point, but unless the people who were reporting their thoughts and posting a plot synopsis were lying to us, we know what happens in the movie. We don't know the exact details, but we know that X beats Y using Z, and that information is enough to form a decent criticism. What we've been criticising (and complaining about) are facts that aren't going to change between now and the theatrical release of the film. When it comes to other things, such as the appearance of certain characters, or the implications of a certain statement, I agree with you fully. We should wait until we actually see it for ourselves. When it comes to the plot, however, we already know what happens and can be critical of it.
Totally, agree, and some here have made worthwhile and accurate criticisms, but those who bark loudest and start debates tend to be the ones flaunting a worthless argument, a la the blue hair or the name of a form.

The plot of the movie is subjective to how people take it, as I've said experience is different to information, but obviously the details won't change. I'm just saying it's better to go and see it and construct a more viable opinion of the scene or movie instead of disliking something just because you know the end result. X beating Y with Z may not sound good, but the more intricate details are left out, and unless you actually see it yourself you are missing 90% of the events, you may actually love what you would say you hated if you'd only based your opinion on very brief descriptions of events.
Oh, definitely, I'm still holding out hope that they're going to do it in a way that's very enjoyable for me. Some of the things, though, just don't do it for me, however it's going to be presented; e.g

Movie spoilers


No matter how they present that, it's not good to me in the slightest. It's just fundamentally really bad to me, and no amount of polish is going to change it. No matter how it's presented, I'm still going to criticise it on a fundamental level.
I agree on that, but that move is a staple, it's iconic, I wouldn't have expected anything else, though a better alternative would have been welcomed, likewise if Goku had stopped Frieza from using the attack and had teamed up with Vegeta and they'd double teamed him, I would have welcomed that, but I knew how it would end, it was fairly obvious.
In these eyes of mine
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Arkadom
Mar 31 2015, 06:52 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Mar 31 2015, 06:47 PM
Arkadom
Mar 31 2015, 06:42 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Mar 31 2015, 06:38 PM
Arkadom
Mar 31 2015, 06:34 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Mar 31 2015, 06:25 PM
Y'know, I think it's kinda funny to say that people are really ungrateful. Here we are, posting on a forum that's dedicated Dragonball Z, some of us with thousands of posts under our belt. We obviously have some form of love for the series, otherwise we wouldn't be here talking about statements, feats, characters and fights in such excruciating detail. People saying that they hate a lot of what the new movie does is completely valid. We got a plot synopsis from people who had an early viewing of it. No matter what you say, we know what happens. Going to see it in the cinema isn't going to suddenly change the details of the plot; we've got a pretty good idea of the events. The only things we don't know are the proper context and translations of certain statements and, as you can see, we're withholding judgement when it comes to that until we see the movie with our own eyes.

An individual's complaint means nothing? To Toriyama, maybe, but it has so much meaning for everyone else. Using the logic of it not being able to change anything, you can silence any and all minority opinions on a topic. People have to make complaints, otherwise we'd have nothing to discuss. It's good to have your views challenged; it makes you reflect on them and either strengthen them, or change them. So I don't care if my opinion doesn't change anything, I'm going to put it forward in order to create debate and discussion.
You have a good point, however seeing it in cinema may well make a difference, I've read up on many, many movies and games and thought I'd dislike them and yet the experience themselves proved very different even if I knew what was going to happen. For instance, I knew what the mid-credits scene of The Hangover 3 was before I saw it, but it didn't stop me laughing myself to tears upon seeing it.

Likewise, critique is always good, but my point is that people don't do that, and it's never useful, if you look at the majority of "criticisms" here, or elsewhere on the internet, it's "another form? Ew!" or "The hair is blue? That's stupid! Someone's hair turning gold is so much better!" or "Gohan looks stupid" or "I'm not seeing this movie, Vegeta didn't win."

Those are incredibly stupid reasons to not see a movie, people go around crying like it's traumatic and vowing that they hate the movie despite the fact they haven't actually seen it in motion and also promise to never give themselves the chance to like it anyway.

The point of having an opinion is obvious, but if you must speak it then it should actually be worthwhile criticism or a passing mention, "I don't like the blue hair" is not, nor will it ever be, a valid reason to constantly complain and peg a movie as if it's a criminal offense.

As PrinceOfSaiyajins has just said, it's enjoyable for the most part, there's really nothing worth hating besides a time travel gimmick, but even that might be used well enough to be good, we won't know until we actually see the movie. Kei17 is right, bashings by people who haven't seen it are invalid because they don't have enough to base an opinion from, if you hear your neighbour is Muslim do you instantly assume they are terrorists? No, and if you do then you should at least speak to them before you start acting like they're a monster. Same with a movie, it's your experience, not the information someone else provides, that should build your opinion.
Fair point, but unless the people who were reporting their thoughts and posting a plot synopsis were lying to us, we know what happens in the movie. We don't know the exact details, but we know that X beats Y using Z, and that information is enough to form a decent criticism. What we've been criticising (and complaining about) are facts that aren't going to change between now and the theatrical release of the film. When it comes to other things, such as the appearance of certain characters, or the implications of a certain statement, I agree with you fully. We should wait until we actually see it for ourselves. When it comes to the plot, however, we already know what happens and can be critical of it.
Totally, agree, and some here have made worthwhile and accurate criticisms, but those who bark loudest and start debates tend to be the ones flaunting a worthless argument, a la the blue hair or the name of a form.

The plot of the movie is subjective to how people take it, as I've said experience is different to information, but obviously the details won't change. I'm just saying it's better to go and see it and construct a more viable opinion of the scene or movie instead of disliking something just because you know the end result. X beating Y with Z may not sound good, but the more intricate details are left out, and unless you actually see it yourself you are missing 90% of the events, you may actually love what you would say you hated if you'd only based your opinion on very brief descriptions of events.
Oh, definitely, I'm still holding out hope that they're going to do it in a way that's very enjoyable for me. Some of the things, though, just don't do it for me, however it's going to be presented; e.g

Movie spoilers


No matter how they present that, it's not good to me in the slightest. It's just fundamentally really bad to me, and no amount of polish is going to change it. No matter how it's presented, I'm still going to criticise it on a fundamental level.
I agree on that, but that move is a staple, it's iconic, I wouldn't have expected anything else, though a better alternative would have been welcomed, likewise if Goku had stopped Frieza from using the attack and had teamed up with Vegeta and they'd double teamed him, I would have welcomed that, but I knew how it would end, it was fairly obvious.
It was fairly obvious, I'll admit, but the total bait-and-switch present in the movie itself doesn't have the intended impact, imo. BoG tried something new and different and, to my knowledge, it wasn't torn apart by critics. Having this film be similarly different to the regular DB/Z formula wouldn't have been a disaster, as it has the appeal of containing one of the, if not the, most iconic villain in the series. Just feels like the movie is playing it safe when it doesn't have to.
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To be fair, this movie was only ever going to be Goku and Vegeta coming to terms with their new abilities. Bringing back Freeza was a good way to make what otherwise would amount to filler entertaining. I'm sure the other 11 universes will be addressed the inevitable sequel.
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Mar 31 2015, 06:59 PM.
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This is really surprising; one of Toriyama's assistants just leaked a small excerpt of the script for the new Dragonball Z Film, which is currently titled 'Dragonball Z Movie 2017'!

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Edited by Yu Narukami, Mar 31 2015, 07:01 PM.
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Nagito Komaeda
Mar 31 2015, 06:55 PM
Quote:
 
It was fairly obvious, I'll admit, but the total bait-and-switch present in the movie itself doesn't have the intended impact, imo. BoG tried something new and different and, to my knowledge, it wasn't torn apart by critics. Having this film be similarly different to the regular DB/Z formula wouldn't have been a disaster, as it has the appeal of containing one of the, if not the, most iconic villain in the series. Just feels like the movie is playing it safe when it doesn't have to.
I can understand that, but I think that it's mixing it up a bit anyway, for instance how Goku is treated throughout the film until the end, Vegeta's role, having the supporting cast actually be helpful and relevant instead of just getting slapped in the face by the main villain, and so on.

Also
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Not bad, I'd say.
In these eyes of mine
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