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NEW DBZ MOVIE 2015: Fukkatsu no F (Warning: Spoilers in Topic)
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Topic Started: Jul 15 2014, 04:56 AM (364,186 Views)
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Event Horizon
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Mar 30 2015, 09:57 PM
Post #3166
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エンペラー
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- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Mar 30 2015, 08:07 PM
- superperfectnerd
- Mar 30 2015, 08:06 PM
- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Mar 30 2015, 07:55 PM
Spoiler: click to toggle I'm hoping Vegeta will get the kill next time. These movies seem to be building up Vegeta.
Spoiler: click to toggle You think Vegeta will get the kill/defeat the main villain in the final movie? I doubt that.
Spoiler: click to toggle I don't know. It's possible. The third movie also isn't necessarily the final one.
Spoiler: click to toggle Are you sure there even will be another movie?
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Mar 30 2015, 10:00 PM
Post #3167
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魔王子
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- Emmeth
- Mar 30 2015, 09:51 PM
All I'm saying is that the series is based on him. AT went back to him as a main protagonist in the Boo arc for a reason. Making Vegeta the star wouldn't really diminish Goku's presence. I mean, look at Battle of Gods. It felt very Dragon Ball, and Vegeta had a much larger role than Goku did.
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superperfectnerd
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Mar 30 2015, 10:01 PM
Post #3168
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- Griffzilla
- Mar 30 2015, 09:53 PM
- superperfectnerd
- Mar 30 2015, 09:46 PM
- Emmeth
- Mar 30 2015, 09:38 PM
- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Mar 30 2015, 09:35 PM
- Emmeth
- Mar 30 2015, 09:10 PM
I'm really looking forward to this movie. People always forget Goku is the ultimate protagonist of Dragonball.
We didn't forget, we're simply tired of it.
Oh boy, why do people like Dragonball in the first place? Are people tired of Naruto being the ultimate protagonist? Are people tired of Luffy being the ultimate protagonist? Goku IS Dragonball, and that's the way it always will be.
Being the main protagonist and being the strongest/the one who always defeats the villain are not mutually exclusive. The focus can remain on Goku and other characters can still surpass him and achieve things he can't. That is a good way to drive him and ground him. If it's just Goku winning every time...then, at some point, it gets boring. Especially if he learns nothing from the experience.
Really, Goku only defeated Frieza (and that was only temporary) and Kid Buu. Everyone else was a team effort or beaten by someone else and he even lost to Beerus. He defeated every villain in DragonBall.
He was the strongest and put up the best fight against Vegeta and provided the spirit bomb while everyone else was a stall/distraction.
He defeated Freeza. Freeza's first defeat was massively significant and Goku got to do it. Against Trunks he was just a joke who had already been surpassed.
He was the one to finish Boo whilst everyone was a stall/distraction.
He defeated every villain in GT (non canon but it's still something we as fans have seen, so it's repetitiveness is relevant.
He defeated every movie villain in both DragonBall and DBZ bar Bojack and Janemba (fusion) - again, non canon but still repetitive.
It's especially apparent in GT and the movies, which I know isn't Toriyama's fault but it's still burned on my retinas.
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Griffzilla
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Mar 30 2015, 10:02 PM
Post #3169
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- Event Horizon
- Mar 30 2015, 09:57 PM
- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Mar 30 2015, 08:07 PM
- superperfectnerd
- Mar 30 2015, 08:06 PM
- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Mar 30 2015, 07:55 PM
Spoiler: click to toggle I'm hoping Vegeta will get the kill next time. These movies seem to be building up Vegeta.
Spoiler: click to toggle You think Vegeta will get the kill/defeat the main villain in the final movie? I doubt that.
Spoiler: click to toggle I don't know. It's possible. The third movie also isn't necessarily the final one.
Spoiler: click to toggle Are you sure there even will be another movie?
Spoiler: click to toggle apparently there is an after credits scene that implies there is a cliff hanger of sorts.
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"I hit the booth and I just went super saiyan!" - Big Sean
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Griffzilla
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Mar 30 2015, 10:06 PM
Post #3170
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- superperfectnerd
- Mar 30 2015, 10:01 PM
- Griffzilla
- Mar 30 2015, 09:53 PM
- superperfectnerd
- Mar 30 2015, 09:46 PM
- Emmeth
- Mar 30 2015, 09:38 PM
- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Mar 30 2015, 09:35 PM
- Emmeth
- Mar 30 2015, 09:10 PM
I'm really looking forward to this movie. People always forget Goku is the ultimate protagonist of Dragonball.
We didn't forget, we're simply tired of it.
Oh boy, why do people like Dragonball in the first place? Are people tired of Naruto being the ultimate protagonist? Are people tired of Luffy being the ultimate protagonist? Goku IS Dragonball, and that's the way it always will be.
Being the main protagonist and being the strongest/the one who always defeats the villain are not mutually exclusive. The focus can remain on Goku and other characters can still surpass him and achieve things he can't. That is a good way to drive him and ground him. If it's just Goku winning every time...then, at some point, it gets boring. Especially if he learns nothing from the experience.
Really, Goku only defeated Frieza (and that was only temporary) and Kid Buu. Everyone else was a team effort or beaten by someone else and he even lost to Beerus.
He defeated every villain in DragonBall. He was the strongest and put up the best fight against Vegeta and provided the spirit bomb while everyone else was a stall/distraction. He defeated Freeza. He was the one to finish Boo whilst everyone was a stall/distraction. He defeated every villain in GT (non canon but it's still something we as fans have seen, so it's repetitiveness is relevant. He defeated every movie villain in both DragonBall and DBZ bar Bojack and Janemba (fusion) - again, non releavant but still repetitive. It's especially apparent in GT and the movies, which I know isn't Toriyama's fault but it's still burned on my retinas. Ah, I didn't even consider GT or the movies in my reply.
I still think the new movie follows the dbz formula.
Spoiler: click to toggle Goku fights and then someone else steps in long enough for Goku to figure out how to win. Did a lot of people really expect Goku to not be the hero of the day?
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"I hit the booth and I just went super saiyan!" - Big Sean
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superperfectnerd
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Mar 30 2015, 10:11 PM
Post #3171
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- Griffzilla
- Mar 30 2015, 10:06 PM
- superperfectnerd
- Mar 30 2015, 10:01 PM
- Griffzilla
- Mar 30 2015, 09:53 PM
- superperfectnerd
- Mar 30 2015, 09:46 PM
- Emmeth
- Mar 30 2015, 09:38 PM
- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Mar 30 2015, 09:35 PM
- Emmeth
- Mar 30 2015, 09:10 PM
I'm really looking forward to this movie. People always forget Goku is the ultimate protagonist of Dragonball.
We didn't forget, we're simply tired of it.
Oh boy, why do people like Dragonball in the first place? Are people tired of Naruto being the ultimate protagonist? Are people tired of Luffy being the ultimate protagonist? Goku IS Dragonball, and that's the way it always will be.
Being the main protagonist and being the strongest/the one who always defeats the villain are not mutually exclusive. The focus can remain on Goku and other characters can still surpass him and achieve things he can't. That is a good way to drive him and ground him. If it's just Goku winning every time...then, at some point, it gets boring. Especially if he learns nothing from the experience.
Really, Goku only defeated Frieza (and that was only temporary) and Kid Buu. Everyone else was a team effort or beaten by someone else and he even lost to Beerus.
He defeated every villain in DragonBall. He was the strongest and put up the best fight against Vegeta and provided the spirit bomb while everyone else was a stall/distraction. He defeated Freeza. He was the one to finish Boo whilst everyone was a stall/distraction. He defeated every villain in GT (non canon but it's still something we as fans have seen, so it's repetitiveness is relevant. He defeated every movie villain in both DragonBall and DBZ bar Bojack and Janemba (fusion) - again, non releavant but still repetitive. It's especially apparent in GT and the movies, which I know isn't Toriyama's fault but it's still burned on my retinas.
Ah, I didn't even consider GT or the movies in my reply. I still think the new movie follows the dbz formula. Spoiler: click to toggle Goku fights and then someone else steps in long enough for Goku to figure out how to win. Did a lot of people really expect Goku to not be the hero of the day?
Spoiler: click to toggle BOG ended with his loss and everyone at Beerus' mercy. that was a massive change in the formula, so rather than that being a reason for Goku to win this time, I guess people were expecting more of something different.
Plus Goku not winning that fight is no reason for him to deserve it more this time. Nobody else beat Beerus, he was undefeated and Goku still got to give him the best fight.
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+ Emmeth
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Mar 30 2015, 10:15 PM
Post #3172
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I ♥ Yoeri
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Alright. Instead of explaining why Goku doesn't deserve to be the hero again, explain why Vegeta DOES deserve it.
And don't mention the whole "Because he has a history with Freeza" bulls***. Vegeta wasn't exactly a hero himself when he was under Freeza's rule.
Edited by Emmeth, Mar 30 2015, 10:16 PM.
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Griffzilla
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Mar 30 2015, 10:21 PM
Post #3173
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- superperfectnerd
- Mar 30 2015, 10:11 PM
- Griffzilla
- Mar 30 2015, 10:06 PM
- superperfectnerd
- Mar 30 2015, 10:01 PM
- Griffzilla
- Mar 30 2015, 09:53 PM
- superperfectnerd
- Mar 30 2015, 09:46 PM
- Emmeth
- Mar 30 2015, 09:38 PM
- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Mar 30 2015, 09:35 PM
- Emmeth
- Mar 30 2015, 09:10 PM
I'm really looking forward to this movie. People always forget Goku is the ultimate protagonist of Dragonball.
We didn't forget, we're simply tired of it.
Oh boy, why do people like Dragonball in the first place? Are people tired of Naruto being the ultimate protagonist? Are people tired of Luffy being the ultimate protagonist? Goku IS Dragonball, and that's the way it always will be.
Being the main protagonist and being the strongest/the one who always defeats the villain are not mutually exclusive. The focus can remain on Goku and other characters can still surpass him and achieve things he can't. That is a good way to drive him and ground him. If it's just Goku winning every time...then, at some point, it gets boring. Especially if he learns nothing from the experience.
Really, Goku only defeated Frieza (and that was only temporary) and Kid Buu. Everyone else was a team effort or beaten by someone else and he even lost to Beerus.
He defeated every villain in DragonBall. He was the strongest and put up the best fight against Vegeta and provided the spirit bomb while everyone else was a stall/distraction. He defeated Freeza. He was the one to finish Boo whilst everyone was a stall/distraction. He defeated every villain in GT (non canon but it's still something we as fans have seen, so it's repetitiveness is relevant. He defeated every movie villain in both DragonBall and DBZ bar Bojack and Janemba (fusion) - again, non releavant but still repetitive. It's especially apparent in GT and the movies, which I know isn't Toriyama's fault but it's still burned on my retinas.
Ah, I didn't even consider GT or the movies in my reply. I still think the new movie follows the dbz formula. Spoiler: click to toggle Goku fights and then someone else steps in long enough for Goku to figure out how to win. Did a lot of people really expect Goku to not be the hero of the day?
Spoiler: click to toggle BOG ended with his loss and everyone at Beerus' mercy. that was a massive change in the formula, so rather than that being a reason for Goku to win this time, I guess people were expecting more of something different.
Plus Goku not winning that fight is no reason for him to deserve it more this time. Nobody else beat Beerus, he was undefeated and Goku still got to give him the best fight. Honestly I just think people got their hopes up when AT said he wanted Vegeta to be the hero. "As for Vegeta, in the event that there’s talk of another animated film, then next time, I’d like him to play the main role. Of course, this is nothing more than intentions, and I haven’t decided anything at all." I believe was what he said. Then it went from intentions to stated fact by fans. Then people got upset bc Vegeta doesn't save the day. I'm ok with the way the movie is said to play out and with what Vegeta accomplishes.
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"I hit the booth and I just went super saiyan!" - Big Sean
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+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans
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Mar 30 2015, 10:22 PM
Post #3174
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魔王子
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- Emmeth
- Mar 30 2015, 10:15 PM
Alright. Instead of explaining why Goku doesn't deserve to be the hero again, explain why Vegeta DOES deserve it.
And don't mention the whole "Because he has a history with Freeza" bulls***. Vegeta wasn't exactly a hero himself when he was under Freeza's rule. This has already been explained several times. -Vegeta's history is somewhat part of it. Revenge would be satisfying to me, but I wouldn't consider this a major reason. -Vegeta has a better relationship with his family and is willing to sacrifice his pride to protect his family. -Vegeta seems to have the potential to exceed Goku, looking at Battle of Gods. -Goku winning is boring and expected, and Vegeta is the only other character that is relevant in terms of battle power.
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* Yu Narukami
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Mar 30 2015, 10:24 PM
Post #3175
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Izanagi!
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Spoiler: click to toggle Vegeta gets plenty of flak for being arrogant and acting like a douche, but that's all Goku did during BoG.
''Goku, don't fight Beerus. He's unbelievably strong and he likes to destroy things.'' ''Imma fight 'im. Should I dial it back to SSJ2?''
''I'm going to hold back while fighting Beerus. Why? 'Cause I feel like it.''
Vegeta was presented as a more fitting hero in BoG, while Goku goes ahead and fights a guy who's stated to be much stronger than him and even prods him with his comment about holding back power. Given Vegeta's actual development compared with Goku's degeneration through the later parts of the series, Vegeta deserves a win much more than Goku does.
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superperfectnerd
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Mar 30 2015, 10:24 PM
Post #3176
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- Emmeth
- Mar 30 2015, 10:15 PM
Alright. Instead of explaining why Goku doesn't deserve to be the hero again, explain why Vegeta DOES deserve it. We aren't going through that again.
Aside from Goku having already done it before, I think seeing Vegeta do it would be cool.
I don't know why but some people seem to be holding fictional characters to the same standard as real people. They mix up likeable traits with entertainment value.
A simple analogy, take Big Brother (not that I watch it), people vote out the crazy, argumentative one...why? Watching them f*** everything up is better entertainment than watching everybody get along politely.
I think Vegeta does deserve to, but that's not the point, I just think it'd be the most satisfying but I'd take anyone over the guy I saw do it the first time.
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Mar 30 2015, 10:25 PM
Post #3177
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I ♥ Yoeri
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Phooey, why not Gohan? Except for the first one, he's all of those.
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Mar 30 2015, 10:28 PM
Post #3178
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魔王子
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- Emmeth
- Mar 30 2015, 10:25 PM
Phooey, why not Gohan? Except for the first one, he's all of those. Are you kidding? Gohan has no drive for starters. Beyond that, Gohan isn't as strong as Goku or Vegeta.
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GokuBlaze
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Mar 30 2015, 10:29 PM
Post #3179
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Spoiler: click to toggle So this movie is just filler?
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Goku is #1
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superperfectnerd
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Mar 30 2015, 10:29 PM
Post #3180
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- Emmeth
- Mar 30 2015, 10:25 PM
Phooey, why not Gohan? Except for the first one, he's all of those. Because it's Freeza. Vegeta has like 35 years of history with the guy. Gohan fought him on Namek for a bit.
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