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NEW DBZ MOVIE 2015: Fukkatsu no F (Warning: Spoilers in Topic)
Topic Started: Jul 15 2014, 04:56 AM (364,201 Views)
AVYLES
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lazerbem
Mar 27 2015, 06:32 PM
I really think the anime fight is interfering with your memory here.

Vegeta wanted to be evil again as Majin Vegeta, he wanted to be back to being evil. He considered his Namek and Saiyan Saga self evil.
My memory is fine.

Vegeta did not want to be evil again. The whole intention behind that was power, a means to surpass Goku. Vegeta felt that him growing fond of Earth and its people, finding himself with a family was weakening him. He did not want to be evil. Again. He wanted to find a way to surpass Goku, gain power, he saw Majin as a possible way to do this and rid him of his affections because he felt they held him back. Goku pretty much beat it out of Vegeta that he didn't want to be evil, and Vegeta later goes on to pretty much confirm this with what he tells Trunks before he sacrificed himself in an attempt to beat Buu, hell, even what Vegeta said before he self destructed would work against you saying he wanted to be evil again. Being evil again wasn't even a factor.

The moment he sacrificed himself was possibly the greatest moment in the entire anime. The was pure redemption right there and further proof that Vegeta wanted to be rid of his past because that isn't him anymore.
Edited by AVYLES, Mar 27 2015, 06:42 PM.
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Slifer
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AVYLES
Mar 27 2015, 06:40 PM
lazerbem
Mar 27 2015, 06:32 PM
I really think the anime fight is interfering with your memory here.

Vegeta wanted to be evil again as Majin Vegeta, he wanted to be back to being evil. He considered his Namek and Saiyan Saga self evil.


Vegeta did not want to be evil again.
Brutally slaughtering hundreds of people at the WMA would suggest otherwise.
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Mr. Hashbrowns
Mar 27 2015, 05:39 PM
He went to Earth for immortality to overthrow Freeza. If he succeeded, then what? He lives the rest of eternity in peace?

Come on, the guy was evil. Hell if anything he was worse than Freeza. At least he had an organized, semi-civilized empire. Vegeta just wanted to fight and kill people.
That's great and all, but Vegeta isn't that person anymore, and he's suffered and atoned for his transgressions. He's been beaten, killed, sacrificed himself in the face of Hell and reincarnation(which is Vegeta's true Hell), and his actions have saved both the Earth and the Universe several times. He's even sacrificed his pride for the sake of his loved ones. What more do people want? Vegeta is a good guy. Yes, he isn't the most pleasant person to be around, but as Komeada has pointed out, Vegeta is better suited to be Earth's protector given that he's willing to lower himself for the sake of everyone else, unlike Goku who has not learned his lesson and keeps letting his selfish lust for battle get in the way of reason.
EDIT: Also, guys, Vegeta may have claimed to not care about his people, planet, or parents, but lets not forget that Vegeta also wasn't one to show emotion. I'm sure he cares somewhat, regardless of what his exterior shows.
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Mar 27 2015, 06:47 PM.
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Slifer
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ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Mar 27 2015, 06:45 PM
Mr. Hashbrowns
Mar 27 2015, 05:39 PM
He went to Earth for immortality to overthrow Freeza. If he succeeded, then what? He lives the rest of eternity in peace?

Come on, the guy was evil. Hell if anything he was worse than Freeza. At least he had an organized, semi-civilized empire. Vegeta just wanted to fight and kill people.
That's great and all, but Vegeta isn't that person anymore, and he's suffered and atoned for his transgressions. He's been beaten, killed, sacrificed himself in the face of Hell and reincarnation(which is Vegeta's true Hell), and his actions have saved both the Earth and the Universe several times. He's even sacrificed his pride for the sake of his loved ones. What more do people want? Vegeta is a good guy. Yes, he isn't the most pleasant person to be around, but as Komeada has pointed out, Vegeta is better suited to be Earth's protector given that he's willing to lower himself for the sake of everyone else, unlike Goku who has not learned his lesson and keeps letting his selfish lust for battle get in the way of reason.
I'm not talking about what he is now; I'm talking about what he was then, which was evil. I'm aware he's changed now, arguably to the point of being a better hero than Goku.
Edited by Slifer, Mar 27 2015, 06:47 PM.
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sekzee
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lazerbem
Mar 27 2015, 06:32 PM
I really think the anime fight is interfering with your memory here.

Vegeta wanted to be evil again as Majin Vegeta, he wanted to be back to being evil. He considered his Namek and Saiyan Saga self evil.
I did point out that it could've been filler, but good filler nonetheless...
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lazerbem
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AVYLES
Mar 27 2015, 06:40 PM
lazerbem
Mar 27 2015, 06:32 PM
I really think the anime fight is interfering with your memory here.

Vegeta wanted to be evil again as Majin Vegeta, he wanted to be back to being evil. He considered his Namek and Saiyan Saga self evil.
My memory is fine.

Vegeta did not want to be evil again. The whole intention behind that was power, a means to surpass Goku. Vegeta felt that him growing fond of Earth and its people, finding himself with a family was weakening him. He did not want to be evil. Again. He wanted to find a way to surpass Goku, gain power, he saw Majin as a possible way to do this and rid him of his affections because he felt they held him back. Goku pretty much beat it out of Vegeta that he didn't want to be evil, and Vegeta later goes on to pretty much confirm this with what he tells Trunks before he sacrificed himself in an attempt to beat Buu, hell, even what Vegeta said before he self destructed would work against you saying he wanted to be evil again. Being evil again wasn't even a factor.

The moment he sacrificed himself was possibly the greatest moment in the entire anime. The was pure redemption right there and further proof that Vegeta wanted to be rid of his past because that isn't him anymore.
He was smiling like a maniac as he slaughtered hundreds of people just to give Goku motivation.

@ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Nappa's death and his reaction to Raditz's defeat suggests otherwise, if we're talking about early Vegeta. Modern Vegeta seems to have just given up on the Saiyan thing
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sekzee
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ITT: People arguing current Vegeta doesn't deserve a victory over Frieza because of early Vegeta.

What the eff.
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lazerbem
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I've been convinced he's a better candidate than Goku, but Vegeta doesn't deserve a victory more than anyone else.
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lazerbem
Mar 27 2015, 06:51 PM
@ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Nappa's death and his reaction to Raditz's defeat suggests otherwise, if we're talking about early Vegeta. Modern Vegeta seems to have just given up on the Saiyan thing
He killed Nappa because he felt he was a disgrace to his race, and he takes great pride in being a Saiyajin. That tells me he cares for his people, somewhat.
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sekzee
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lazerbem
Mar 27 2015, 06:55 PM
I've been convinced he's a better candidate than Goku, but Vegeta doesn't deserve a victory more than anyone else.
He deserved to pummel Cell's head in when he pierced Trunks' heart. :'(

He certainly deserves it now.
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lazerbem
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ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Mar 27 2015, 06:59 PM
lazerbem
Mar 27 2015, 06:51 PM
@ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Nappa's death and his reaction to Raditz's defeat suggests otherwise, if we're talking about early Vegeta. Modern Vegeta seems to have just given up on the Saiyan thing
He killed Nappa because he felt he was a disgrace to his race, and he takes great pride in being a Saiyajin. That tells me he cares for his people, somewhat.
And yet Vegeta doesn't commit seppuku when Goku defeats him? No, Vegeta's killing of Nappa is absolute hypocrisy, if it was about his race's honor, Vegeta would have killed himself as well when Goku beat him.

@sekzee
According to Toei logic

Cell Shooting Trunks Through the Heart: Vegeta doesn't get a rage boost
Bulma Is Non-Fatally Slapped: Vegeta goes ham for a couple of seconds
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lazerbem
Mar 27 2015, 07:04 PM
ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Mar 27 2015, 06:59 PM
lazerbem
Mar 27 2015, 06:51 PM
@ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Nappa's death and his reaction to Raditz's defeat suggests otherwise, if we're talking about early Vegeta. Modern Vegeta seems to have just given up on the Saiyan thing
He killed Nappa because he felt he was a disgrace to his race, and he takes great pride in being a Saiyajin. That tells me he cares for his people, somewhat.
And yet Vegeta doesn't commit seppuku when Goku defeats him? No, Vegeta's killing of Nappa is absolute hypocrisy, if it was about his race's honor, Vegeta would have killed himself as well when Goku beat him.
I wouldn't put early Vegeta above hypocrisy :lol: .
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Slifer
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sekzee
Mar 27 2015, 07:00 PM
lazerbem
Mar 27 2015, 06:55 PM
I've been convinced he's a better candidate than Goku, but Vegeta doesn't deserve a victory more than anyone else.
He deserved to pummel Cell's head in when he pierced Trunks' heart. :'(

He certainly deserves it now.
It was 50% Vegeta's fault Cell became complete in the first place. The only thing he deserved then was the firm bitchsmack Cell gave him.
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lazerbem
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ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Mar 27 2015, 07:06 PM
lazerbem
Mar 27 2015, 07:04 PM
ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Mar 27 2015, 06:59 PM
lazerbem
Mar 27 2015, 06:51 PM
@ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Nappa's death and his reaction to Raditz's defeat suggests otherwise, if we're talking about early Vegeta. Modern Vegeta seems to have just given up on the Saiyan thing
He killed Nappa because he felt he was a disgrace to his race, and he takes great pride in being a Saiyajin. That tells me he cares for his people, somewhat.
And yet Vegeta doesn't commit seppuku when Goku defeats him? No, Vegeta's killing of Nappa is absolute hypocrisy, if it was about his race's honor, Vegeta would have killed himself as well when Goku beat him.
I wouldn't put early Vegeta above hypocrisy :lol: .
Well yeah, that's what I was saying. Vegeta's reasons for killing Freeza were just "Hey, I want to be top dog, not you". If that is nice, then by golly, Starscream is a nice guy too.

Vegeta killing Freeza is to be fair better than Goku doing it, but I wouldn't say he deserves it more than say, Krillin or Piccolo. The former for being "killed" twice by Freeza, the latter for actually caring about his race when it was exterminated and being "killed" by him.
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GokuBlaze
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I think vegeta deserves some shine
Goku is #1
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