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NEW DBZ MOVIE 2015: Fukkatsu no F (Warning: Spoilers in Topic)
Topic Started: Jul 15 2014, 04:56 AM (364,202 Views)
lazerbem
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Porcukor
Mar 27 2015, 04:48 PM
Or he was bluffing all the time

And I guess you are all just forgot about this

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He says nothing that would indicate he felt bad about it there.

Furthermore, why would he bluff to someone he's about to kill?
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* Yu Narukami
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Izanagi!

Before, Vegeta wanted to fight kill Freeza purely because he wasn't content with being under his rule.

Now, he wants to fight Freeza in order to protect his friends and family.

Goku, on the other hand? Mr. 'Imma fight 'em' wanted to fight Freeza on Namek because he wanted to fight somebody strong. Same thing with Beerus. Goku's shown time and again that his reasons for fighting are selfish, while current Vegeta hasn't shown the same motivation. Kaio knew how strong Goku and Beerus were, yet Goku, failing to understand that he was massively weaker, didn't heed his warnings and fought anyway. Vegeta, on the other hand, did understand what Kaio was saying and took his words into account. Vegeta is much better 'hero' material than Goku at this point.
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I feel that Lazerbem just doesn't care much for Vegeta and his whole character or role in the anime.

He's completely wrong about Vegeta not caring about his own people, or his destroyed planet or even his parents. Vegeta is notorious for hiding is feelings or how he really feels about something he cares deeply for, by insulting them/it, being standoffish, overall stubborn. What he told Goku an planet Namek, was at the time the most sincere Vegeta had been about anything leading up to his death. I don't find it so hard to decipher what Vegeta meant by what he told Goku before he died. To me, Vegeta is telling Goku to carry out what he failed to do; liberate his people of Freeza and his rule. Is that so hard to realize? Everyone seems to be mislead on what kind of person Vegeta actually was when he was doing Freeza's bidding. Vegeta was considered evil, heartless, ruthless, he didn't have even a trace of a conscious where he felt remorse or some kind of sympathy for the people he'd killed. Vegeta was a character trapped by his own lack of confidence and strength to liberate himself from the situation he was in, which was again having no choice but to work for Freeza because his other option was death if he refused. And so ultimately, Vegeta had been working to overcome the gap in strength between him and Freeza so one day he could liberate his people of his rule. Obviously he failed at this, but he never lost sight of that goal, and he met it head on even if he died.

I'm not saying I'm not wrong about Vegeta. I'm just giving my opinion on what sort of character he really was, and is now. It would be easy for anyone that watched the anime and witnessed what Vegeta did up until the point he joined Goku, to say Vegeta knew full well what he was doing, murdering innocent species/people, so forth. It would be easy to assume that. But again. Vegeta had no choice. And I think it was abundantly clear that Vegeta was not proud of the things he'd done under Freeza when he spilled his guts to Goku before he died. Those were the words of someone that had lived a life confined, but I've repeated that a dozen times already.

So, yes. Vegeta does deserve to defeat Freeza more than anyone does. Goku did once, but he did so because he had to, of course he was driven by the deaths of Krillin, many others from Namek and so forth. But nobody felt the gravity or weight of it more than Vegeta because he was born in to that nightmare, he spent some of his life and Planet Vegeta, the events leading up to that point when he died were burned in his mind. It just makes sense for someone that had suffered and witnessed so much of what Freeza had done, to be the one to defeat Freeza for the final time.

So how could that not click in everyone else's head, too? If you took a moment to disregard who you think deserves it, disregard what character is your favorite or who you'd like to see put Freeza down. I think you'd all realize what I've said makes sense.
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Slifer
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He went to Earth for immortality to overthrow Freeza. If he succeeded, then what? He lives the rest of eternity in peace?

Come on, the guy was evil. Hell if anything he was worse than Freeza. At least he had an organized, semi-civilized empire. Vegeta just wanted to fight and kill people.
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Mr. Hashbrowns
Mar 27 2015, 05:39 PM
He went to Earth for immortality to overthrow Freeza. If he succeeded, then what? He lives the rest of eternity in peace?

Come on, the guy was evil. Hell if anything he was worse than Freeza. At least he had an organized, semi-civilized empire. Vegeta just wanted to fight and kill people.
See, I think you're opinion on Vegeta and his intentions aren't grounded where they should be.

Evil because he had no other option, or evil because he was just born that we and destined for that kind of lifestyle? I think evil because he had no other option. But even then though, calling Vegeta evil to me, it just doesn't sound proper.

One could argue that Vegeta enjoyed, or loved killing innocent civilizations. I could even agree that he certainly appeared to. But maybe that was all just an act? I say that because of what he told Goku before he died. I'm fairly certain Vegeta felt that way the entire time he was with Freeza, and even after he betrayed him. Perhaps it is true that Vegeta didn't care for his people or parents, but based on what I saw of him on Namek, and things he's said or done after the fact, would have me standing by what I said of Vegeta. This is just a guy that isn't understood, and he's more or less crucified for the things he did with Freeza and I feel it sort of clouds peoples opinion of his true nature. Yeah. I know saiyans were a violent race. Bardock did crappy things, but he didn't appear to an overall evil guy. Bardock cared for his comrades.

Vegeta didn't care at all for the people he worked with while working for Freeza, means to an end, every one of them including Freeza. Yeah, it's true Vegeta had selfish intentions for wanting to over throw Freeza. But for a guy people claim didn't care about his people, he sure did get pissed if people insulted his race because it also meant they were insulting him and his pride.

Vegeta. Misunderstood and most deserving of taking Freeza and kicking the ever loving sh*t out of him.
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lazerbem
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Nagito Komaeda
Mar 27 2015, 05:27 PM
Before, Vegeta wanted to fight kill Freeza purely because he wasn't content with being under his rule.

Now, he wants to fight Freeza in order to protect his friends and family.

Goku, on the other hand? Mr. 'Imma fight 'em' wanted to fight Freeza on Namek because he wanted to fight somebody strong. Same thing with Beerus. Goku's shown time and again that his reasons for fighting are selfish, while current Vegeta hasn't shown the same motivation. Kaio knew how strong Goku and Beerus were, yet Goku, failing to understand that he was massively weaker, didn't heed his warnings and fought anyway. Vegeta, on the other hand, did understand what Kaio was saying and took his words into account. Vegeta is much better 'hero' material than Goku at this point.
...You know, sadly enough, I actually agree with you there.

If Goku pulls a d*** move again, he can get upstaged by Vegeta.
@AVYLES
Caring for your comrades doesn't make you a good person. Case in point, Nappa. He was distressed when Vegeta killed the Saibaman and wanted to revive Raditz. He was still really evil and violent.

It's just that Vegeta didn't even have that redeeming factor. He killed Nappa and the beaten Saibamen without giving a single crap. So much for caring about his race, he just contributed to killing off another one
Edited by lazerbem, Mar 27 2015, 05:55 PM.
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Southern Gothic
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Dilly Dilly

lazerbem
Mar 27 2015, 03:57 PM
ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Mar 27 2015, 03:21 PM
Come one, Vegeta isn't even the person you originally despised. Vegeta's changed, and I think he deserves at least 1 major victory.
Deserves? Why does he deserve one more than anyone else? Is there a waiting line of who deserves to have wins more than who?

Because if that's the case, Chaozu deserves a win more than anyone. Unless you mean that Vegeta's personal relations with Freeza make him deserve the win as well, in which case that's also a rather weak argument because Vegeta's hatred of Freeza stemmed solely because he wanted to replace him and didn't like being second fiddle, hardly altruistic reasons.
I have to back you up on this.

I'm a huge Vegeta fanboy. He's my favorite character in the show by far. Personally I have high hopes that he does get the spotlight here, and either defeats Freeza or has a hand in doing so.

But no, I won't go so far as to say he is the only one who deserves it. My reasons for wanting more Vegeta time are selfish, and I would feel the same whether this were Namek Vegeta or this new, nice-guy Vegeta.
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lazerbem
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TBH, I would prefer Krillin killing Freeza with a Kienzan from behind or something ironic like that.

But Nagito has convinced me that Goku is really not any better of a candidate than Vegeta. Nay, Goku is a worse candidate
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lazerbem
Mar 27 2015, 05:53 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Mar 27 2015, 05:27 PM
Before, Vegeta wanted to fight kill Freeza purely because he wasn't content with being under his rule.

Now, he wants to fight Freeza in order to protect his friends and family.

Goku, on the other hand? Mr. 'Imma fight 'em' wanted to fight Freeza on Namek because he wanted to fight somebody strong. Same thing with Beerus. Goku's shown time and again that his reasons for fighting are selfish, while current Vegeta hasn't shown the same motivation. Kaio knew how strong Goku and Beerus were, yet Goku, failing to understand that he was massively weaker, didn't heed his warnings and fought anyway. Vegeta, on the other hand, did understand what Kaio was saying and took his words into account. Vegeta is much better 'hero' material than Goku at this point.
...You know, sadly enough, I actually agree with you there.

If Goku pulls a d*** move again, he can get upstaged by Vegeta.
@AVYLES
Caring for your comrades doesn't make you a good person. Case in point, Nappa. He was distressed when Vegeta killed the Saibaman and wanted to revive Raditz. He was still really evil and violent.

It's just that Vegeta didn't even have that redeeming factor. He killed Nappa and the beaten Saibamen without giving a single crap. So much for caring about his race, he just contributed to killing off another one
Perhaps it's more that Vegeta cared for his own pride as a saiyan and not so much about his race, maybe. But I think he still cared on some level by what he told Goku on Namek.

And why would Vegeta care if he killed Saibamen? They were a tool to him, nothing more. And Nappa was a little sh*t, so Vegeta killing him makes no difference to me. You appear to be saying Nappa was a better person than Vegeta, but I don't agree. I think he was worse. Vegeta felt guilt, even if he appeared not to while working for Freeza. I think this is proven true by things he has shared with Goku and the others about that time after he was revived and brought to Earth. He's not proud of who he was then. That's more than clear to me anyway.

This is Vegeta's time man. He deserves this in every sense of the word.
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+ Emmeth
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I Yoeri

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"I don't give a damn about the planet, my friends or my parents."
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sekzee
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lazerbem
Mar 27 2015, 05:59 PM
TBH, I would prefer Krillin killing Freeza with a Kienzan from behind or something ironic like that.

But Nagito has convinced me that Goku is really not any better of a candidate than Vegeta. Nay, Goku is a worse candidate
As if Frieza would die from being cut in half, let alone a bunch of tiny pieces...how ignorant of you! :p

EDIT: Did anyone read/watch DB? It is like no one knows that Vegeta was a hardass that eventually learned to open up his heart...

It doesn't mean that he never truly didn't care, it's just that he didn't have any room to because he was focused on surviving. Read/watch the SSJ2 Goku vs. Majin Vegeta fight. He elaborates on it further there, too.

*facepalm*
Edited by sekzee, Mar 27 2015, 06:20 PM.
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Slifer
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Emmeth
Mar 27 2015, 06:14 PM
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"I don't give a damn about the planet, my friends or my parents."
Says enough, really. He's wants immortality for himself over wishing his race and father back.

Sure he might've had a few regrets in the face of death. In the heat in the moment, he enjoyed killing as much as anyone.
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Emmeth
Mar 27 2015, 06:14 PM
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"I don't give a damn about the planet, my friends or my parents."
Looking back on that. I think that when Vegeta said that, he was convinced that he believed those words he spoke to that pink freak (that dude freaked me out when I was a kid...)

But I don't think he really felt that way, not entirely. Vegeta said a lot of things back then that I feel were just from a place of hatred at how his life had turned out so far. He wasn't happy or content with what he was doing. And I know that the things he expressed while doing those things would say otherwise. Vegeta STILL says crap like that when a tender subject is brought up. So I find it hard for me to take comments like the one you've quoted, seriously. I think it's clear that speaking of Planet Vegeta, his parents isn't something he enjoys being brought up. We can't say he never cared for his parents, he probably did before he got his head f'd up by Freeza and the life he adopted for Vegeta. Vegeta was indeed a little twerp when he was a kid. And what he was exposed to when he joined Freeza only helped him get even more gone.

Bottom line. I think Vegeta cared more for the things he claimed he didn't, than what he admitted to, or lack there of.
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sekzee
Mar 27 2015, 06:18 PM
lazerbem
Mar 27 2015, 05:59 PM
TBH, I would prefer Krillin killing Freeza with a Kienzan from behind or something ironic like that.

But Nagito has convinced me that Goku is really not any better of a candidate than Vegeta. Nay, Goku is a worse candidate
As if Frieza would die from being cut in half, let alone a bunch of tiny pieces...how ignorant of you! :p

EDIT: Did anyone read/watch DB? It is like no one knows that Vegeta was a hardass that eventually learned to open up his heart...

It doesn't mean that he never truly didn't care, it's just that he didn't have any room to because he was focused on surviving. Read/watch the SSJ2 Goku vs. Majin Vegeta fight. He elaborates on it further there, too.

*facepalm*
Vegeta didn't know any other kind of life other than killing and destruction before Goku ultimately was the one to expose him to the possibility of a different, and better life. Good was always in Vegeta's heart, he just needed liberated from the life he lived working for Freeza.

And yeah, he did elaborate during his fight with Goku during the Buu saga.

...damn, double post...sorry, mods.
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lazerbem
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I really think the anime fight is interfering with your memory here.

Vegeta wanted to be evil again as Majin Vegeta, he wanted to be back to being evil. He considered his Namek and Saiyan Saga self evil.
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