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NEW DBZ MOVIE 2015: Fukkatsu no F (Warning: Spoilers in Topic)
Topic Started: Jul 15 2014, 04:56 AM (364,241 Views)
superperfectnerd
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superperfectnerd
Mar 8 2015, 01:47 AM
FutureProtagonist
Mar 8 2015, 12:14 AM
ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Mar 8 2015, 12:02 AM
-Zenkais are entirely random, and Vegeta really wasn't too far off.
-Goku also sparred with Gohan and spent time mastering Super Saiyajin.
-Vegeta was on Earth. Goku was in Otherworld. Goku got whole hell of a lot more "special training" than Vegeta did. The fact that Vegeta kept up at all, starting out weaker mind you, is damn impressive.
-Vegeta was also weaker, so his current limits would reflect that.
-Vegeta acknowledges why Goku is number one, not that he can't surpass him.
Vegeta: “…No, that’s not it…I think I did perform more special training than you, but you’re a greater genius than I am…”

I would agree that Goku should have gotten more special training, but I can't see any reason why Vegeta would undercut himself here. If Goku really did get more special training, he could easily use that as a (valid) excuse for being weaker. Vegeta's admission that Goku is "a greater genius", is more-or-less an admission of inferior potential.

Him starting out weaker isn't really that impressive, considering he trained for twice as long before the Cell Games, solo or no.

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Vegeta got two zenkais and wasn't anywhere Goku who only had one. I know they're random, but they'd have to be limited by someone's dormant power.
Vegeta has always been blinded by his pride. He trains harder than Goku does and probably does do some more complicated training but he doesn't train as smart as Goku. It was only Vegeta who said this and he's the one who doesn't understand his methods are lacking. Goku never agrees with him.

As for the Namek zenkai, my theory is that a zenkai is a saiyans's biological defence mechanism which pushes their power past it's maximum to avoid suffering damage again next time. So Vegeta was around 500000 when he got his final zenkai and was pushed to over 2 million. Goku was at 90000 when he got his but with Kaioken x 20 his body had experienced 1.8 million, so his zenkai pushed him up to 3 million, past his maximum power with Kaioken.

I mean Vegeta got a zenkai from a nap....soooooooooooo....
Edited by superperfectnerd, Mar 8 2015, 01:53 AM.
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Norc Groose
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ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Mar 8 2015, 12:56 AM
FutureProtagonist
Mar 8 2015, 12:14 AM
ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Mar 8 2015, 12:02 AM
-Zenkais are entirely random, and Vegeta really wasn't too far off.
-Goku also sparred with Gohan and spent time mastering Super Saiyajin.
-Vegeta was on Earth. Goku was in Otherworld. Goku got whole hell of a lot more "special training" than Vegeta did. The fact that Vegeta kept up at all, starting out weaker mind you, is damn impressive.
-Vegeta was also weaker, so his current limits would reflect that.
-Vegeta acknowledges why Goku is number one, not that he can't surpass him.
Vegeta: “…No, that’s not it…I think I did perform more special training than you, but you’re a greater genius than I am…”

I would agree that Goku should have gotten more special training, but I can't see any reason why Vegeta would undercut himself here. If Goku really did get more special training, he could easily use that as a (valid) excuse for being weaker. Vegeta's admission that Goku is "a greater genius", is more-or-less an admission of inferior potential.

Him starting out weaker isn't really that impressive, considering he trained for twice as long before the Cell Games, solo or no.

Posted Image

Vegeta got two zenkais and wasn't anywhere Goku who only had one. I know they're random, but they'd have to be limited by someone's dormant power.
I think Vegeta just means he trained harder. I honestly can't see how any amount of Earthly training could compare to training in Other world.

Vegeta training harder is irrelevant. When you mentioned Goku training with Gohan, that works against you because Goku and Gohan started out in the Rosat FAR weaker than Trunks and Vegeta, and in less than a year, they outstripped them both.

Sure it can be assumed that Goku gets "special training" in the Afterlife. But other than King Kai, there's literally no evidence of him doing anything other than weight training from what we saw in the manga. I do agree that Vegeta trains harder (not by too much though), but Goku has always been made out to have superior potential to Vegeta.

As far as the movie goes, I doubt Vegeta will be the one to defeat Frieza, but I wouldn't be against it in the slightest.
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+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans
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魔王子

Sorry, I can't say agree that it's clear that Goku has superior potential. If anything I'd consider them equals as they're always at odds with each as far as battle powers go, but then there's Battle of Gods which assumes Vegeta has more, at least now.
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lazerbem
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BOG retcons so much at this point that its canonicity is thrown into question. Among these is the subject of Vegeta's potential.

Clearly, Vegeta was lying when he said that Goku was better than him in the Boo Arc.
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lazerbem
Mar 8 2015, 02:23 AM
BOG retcons so much at this point that its canonicity is thrown into question.
Sorry, but inconsistencies or retcons do not affect it's potential canonicity. If that were true, the manga itself would be drawn into question.
lazerbem
 
Clearly, Vegeta was lying when he said that Goku was better than him in the Boo Arc.

That's a fallacy. Goku was better than him at the time.
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Mar 8 2015, 02:27 AM.
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My Dear Melancholy,

Pudd gave me this idea so credit to him. Perhaps this needs it's own thread .

What if with all these epic movies (IMO) that aren't exactly not filled with plot holes (I don't care honestly as long as story is AMAZING!) that it leads to a infinite crisis or Flashpoint style story?

Toriyama loves the DC universe as Dragonball Minus is basically Superman's origin story.
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TheGmGoken
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Anyone believe that Goku(before Vegeta arrive) is going to defeat Freeza but something prevents him from finishing the job? With Beerus comments we may see BOTH Goku(who loses due to something) and Vegeta kick some Freeza a***.

I asked this because (and not to be too in universe or power related) Freeza was NOT damaged to the point of bruises when he evolutionize. However when he finally beats Goku. He looks like this
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Posted Image

And when he first transformed
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I wonder now. If I'm correct... then what cause Goku to lose <_<

Beerus Comment: "You brought it upon yourself". This can be about Goku losing, Freeza losing, or even Freeza coming back.

Quote:
 
Pudd gave me this idea so credit to him. Perhaps this needs it's own thread .

What if with all these epic movies (IMO) that aren't exactly not filled with plot holes (I don't care honestly as long as story is AMAZING!) that it leads to a infinite crisis or Flashpoint style story?

Toriyama loves the DC universe as Dragonball Minus is basically Superman's origin story.


That was a joke. I wasn't serious. But seeing as Toriyama ideas aren't 100% original...
Edited by TheGmGoken, Mar 8 2015, 03:21 AM.
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Perhaps Freeza loses and Beerus revives him somehow.
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lazerbem
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How would a God of Destruction revive someone? That's the opposite of destroying. Not to mention that would be unintelligent, given Freeza seems to be set up as at least as strong as him
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Then Whis will do it!
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Maybe they have a close fight but goku shows mercy and beerus is pretty much calling goku an idiot when he says "brought this on yourself"
IT'S CHEESE
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Friezas form is nicknamed "golden Frieza"
http://dragonblogz.com/revival-of-f-weekly-shonen-jump-golden-freeza-reveal/
IT'S CHEESE
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AVYLES
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I think the trailer showing Freeza pressing his foot down on Goku's chest, Goku looking to be beaten, is getting people jumping to conclusions.

I don't think Goku loses. What we saw is most likely a tactic to get people more interested, to draw more people in. Show a clip of Goku bruised and bloody with Freeza over him, people are sure to think Goku is beaten. If Goku does lose, I won't be surprised. I just don't think what we saw, is actually what we thought it was.
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Ben
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lazerbem
Mar 8 2015, 02:23 AM
BOG retcons so much at this point that its canonicity is thrown into question. Among these is the subject of Vegeta's potential.

Clearly, Vegeta was lying when he said that Goku was better than him in the Boo Arc.
Anyone who ever believed Goku is better than Vegeta is a fool, a fool I tell you. :p

But yeah, Toriyama keeps retconning everything. Normally, as a Boo saga detractor I'd be with you. But... Vegeta movie! YES!
Edited by Ben, Mar 8 2015, 10:40 AM.
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superperfectnerd
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Goku is an ordinary saiyan, he's special because he hit his head and has a kind and gentle personality and a drive to be the best he can be. That's what makes him unique. You really think that the only baby sent offworld when every other saiyan died just happened to have the greatest potential of them all? Goku having greater natural potential than other saiyans flies in the face of the original Goku and Vegeta concept, "don't be defined by the circumstances of your birth".
Edited by superperfectnerd, Mar 8 2015, 11:53 AM.
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