SSJ Grade 2 Strain

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SSJ Grade 2 Strain
Tweet Topic Started: Nov 2 2014, 10:09 PM (2,157 Views)
Vertical	Nov 2 2014, 10:09 PM Post #1
Posts: 2,542 Group: Member Member #8,475 Joined: October 27, 2012	*For those unclear on the matter: SSJ Grade 2 is the form used by Vegeta when he pummeled Semi-Perfect Cell (sometimes referred to as ASSJ or even USSJ1).* We should all be aware of the implications made by Goku and Cell on the weaknesses of SSJ Grade 3... but what about Grade 2? I regularly see the form described [and accepted] as strenuous and exhausting... but where is this implied? Vegeta never appears stamina-drained or stressed while using the form... though he later makes note that the act of transforming in general results in "wasted" energy, when describing Gohan/Goku's perma-SSJ concept to Trunks. As far as I can remember, no mention is made to disadvantages until Grade 3 in introduced. Are people simply assuming the same disadvantages are present (to a lesser degree) in Grade 2? I understand that people may be reaching for disadvantages to pin on the form due to Goku/Vegeta/Trunks not using it during the Cell Games... but is this really the answer? Edited by Vertical, Nov 2 2014, 10:37 PM.
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EMIYA	Nov 2 2014, 10:19 PM Post #2
"I am the bone of my sword." Posts: 11,326 Group: Super Moderator Member #8,292 Joined: September 16, 2012 Gender Not Specified Country United States Favourite Anime Clannad, Shinsekai Yori What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Hellsing, Elfen Lied, Trigun Maximum	There isn't any sign of strain or stamina loss. No more than the regular SSj form. I mean heck, Vegeta kept the form from the moment he transformed against Semi-Perfect Cell to his defeat by Perfect Cell, shooting off massive final flashes and blasts all around. Unless MSSJ gives you an equal or larger boost than ASSJ then there was no reason for...anyone to use MSSJ. in DBZ where ki is everything, you want more ki and you just want to make sure other starts aren't too negatively effected by that. USSJ heavily effected speed but ASSJ never had that problem and as we see the stamina loss wasn't anywhere as bad to warrant complaint.



Vertical	Nov 2 2014, 10:23 PM Post #3
Posts: 2,542 Group: Member Member #8,475 Joined: October 27, 2012	Father Brofist Nov 2 2014, 10:19 PM Unless MSSJ gives you an equal or larger boost than ASSJ then there was no reason for...anyone to use MSSJ. I think that this in particular is why a lot of people go looking for an excuse... as MSSJ is not implied to be any different than SSJ in terms of power.
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+ QueenTD	Nov 2 2014, 10:27 PM Post #4
My Dear Melancholy, Posts: 4,482 Group: Elite Member Member #11,589 Joined: August 8, 2014 Gender Female Country United States	This is one (excuse my language. I don't cuss a lot) hell of a stretch but when Vegeta turnt ASSJ, he had veins coming out of his body and head. Maybe it's a small strain that's not as noticeable or Vegeta can do less ki based attacks. He only did two against Cell if I'm correct.
	Spoiler: click to toggle GinyuTokusentai You seem nice. Kinda innocent, just a sweet girl Emmeth It seems like you really care about people and you're always polite and worried you'll offend anyone. It's cute. My Step Son peep love u xoxo


+ Pointer	Nov 2 2014, 10:29 PM Post #5
... Posts: 7,062 Group: Elite Member Member #8,812 Joined: January 5, 2013 Gender Male	Father Brofist Nov 2 2014, 10:19 PM There isn't any sign of strain or stamina loss. No more than the regular SSj form. I mean heck, Vegeta kept the form from the moment he transformed against Semi-Perfect Cell to his defeat by Perfect Cell, shooting off massive final flashes and blasts all around. Unless MSSJ gives you an equal or larger boost than ASSJ then there was no reason for...anyone to use MSSJ. in DBZ where ki is everything, you want more ki and you just want to make sure other starts aren't too negatively effected by that. USSJ heavily effected speed but ASSJ never had that problem and as we see the stamina loss wasn't anywhere as bad to warrant complaint. Explain me then why didnt Goku used the ASSj instead of regular ssj if it is that superior?



+ QueenTD	Nov 2 2014, 10:37 PM Post #6
My Dear Melancholy, Posts: 4,482 Group: Elite Member Member #11,589 Joined: August 8, 2014 Gender Female Country United States	Pointer Nov 2 2014, 10:29 PM Father Brofist Nov 2 2014, 10:19 PM There isn't any sign of strain or stamina loss. No more than the regular SSj form. I mean heck, Vegeta kept the form from the moment he transformed against Semi-Perfect Cell to his defeat by Perfect Cell, shooting off massive final flashes and blasts all around. Unless MSSJ gives you an equal or larger boost than ASSJ then there was no reason for...anyone to use MSSJ. in DBZ where ki is everything, you want more ki and you just want to make sure other starts aren't too negatively effected by that. USSJ heavily effected speed but ASSJ never had that problem and as we see the stamina loss wasn't anywhere as bad to warrant complaint. Explain me then why didnt Goku used the ASSj instead of regular ssj if it is that superior? I'm sorry if it's rude to say this. I'm try to find light in everything. But to be fair it's because of plot. Toriyama probably didn't want to draw muscles constantly or he had SSJ2 Kid Gohan planned out already.
	Spoiler: click to toggle GinyuTokusentai You seem nice. Kinda innocent, just a sweet girl Emmeth It seems like you really care about people and you're always polite and worried you'll offend anyone. It's cute. My Step Son peep love u xoxo


+ Pointer	Nov 2 2014, 11:45 PM Post #7
... Posts: 7,062 Group: Elite Member Member #8,812 Joined: January 5, 2013 Gender Male	Or Mssj was stated to be inferior of those two despite the fact of it operates with less multiplier. In a real battle it is more useful than those two pseudo ascensions



EMIYA	Nov 2 2014, 11:52 PM Post #8
"I am the bone of my sword." Posts: 11,326 Group: Super Moderator Member #8,292 Joined: September 16, 2012 Gender Not Specified Country United States Favourite Anime Clannad, Shinsekai Yori What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Hellsing, Elfen Lied, Trigun Maximum	Goku didn't use the form cause he's stupid. Again unless MSSJ is never implied to have a larger amp than regular SSJ while ASSJ was. The only thing that MSSJ had was a lack of stamina loss and equalized stats more. Which is all fine and dandy except ASSJ significantly increased all of its stats from SSJ. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that ASSJ has any significant stamina loss. The entire idea of MSSJ was that it reduced stamina loss and the issue with that is that stamina loss was never a big issue with the SSJ forms. I mean be honest with me people, if Goku had never brought that up, would you have though that the SSJ forms had a huge amount of stamina loss that needed to be looked into? I don't think so. It's like this. MSSJ Stats: Strength: 10 Speed: 10 Defense: 10 Stamina: 10 ASSJ Strength: 20 Speed: 20 Defense: 20 Stamina: 8 Was that stamina loss so bad in ASSj that you decided to use a far weaker form?



+ Pointer	Nov 3 2014, 12:19 AM Post #9
... Posts: 7,062 Group: Elite Member Member #8,812 Joined: January 5, 2013 Gender Male	Father Brofist Nov 2 2014, 11:52 PM Goku didn't use the form cause he's stupid. Again unless MSSJ is never implied to have a larger amp than regular SSJ while ASSJ was. The only thing that MSSJ had was a lack of stamina loss and equalized stats more. Which is all fine and dandy except ASSJ significantly increased all of its stats from SSJ. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that ASSJ has any significant stamina loss. The entire idea of MSSJ was that it reduced stamina loss and the issue with that is that stamina loss was never a big issue with the SSJ forms. I mean be honest with me people, if Goku had never brought that up, would you have though that the SSJ forms had a huge amount of stamina loss that needed to be looked into? I don't think so. It's like this. MSSJ Stats: Strength: 10 Speed: 10 Defense: 10 Stamina: 10 ASSJ Strength: 20 Speed: 20 Defense: 20 Stamina: 8 Was that stamina loss so bad in ASSj that you decided to use a far weaker form? It was directly stated by Goku and thus AT that using the ascended forms in battle is not the best option. Btw I was the fan of the idea back in march I love Assj but it was not used because of its weakness in stamina drop, it has to be pretty significant for goku to decide not to polish the training of the ascended forms. Personally I have the drains much higher it is like mssj power =10 speed = 10 ki drain thus stamina drain 0,1% of regular ssj's drain Assj Power = 20 Speed = 20 ki drain thus stamina drain 200% of regular ssj's drain So assj might gives better stats but in a "long-run" it consumes way more KI for being used efficiently like frieza's final form or even worse. Edited by Pointer, Nov 3 2014, 12:21 AM.



SuperSaiyan1993	Nov 3 2014, 07:13 PM Post #10
Super Saiyan among Super Saiyans Posts: 3,294 Group: Member Member #7,044 Joined: December 7, 2011 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragonball Z, Avatar	It was never evidenced in actual combat. It has a strain on speed because Goku said so. FP Semi-Perfect Cell was able to shed some cosmetic blood from SSJG2 Vegeta. This means that FP Semi-Perfect Cell was stronger than SSJ Vegeta (Post Rosat), yet SSJG2 made Vegeta faster than FP Semi-Perfect Cell. Short version: plot.
	We Super Saiyans are in a league of our own.


+ Majin Vegeta	Nov 3 2014, 08:51 PM Post #11
The resident GT fan! Posts: 8,522 Group: Elite Member Member #9,206 Joined: March 17, 2013 Gender Male Country Greece Favourite Anime DragonBall/Z/GT, Code Geass,Attack on Titan, Death Note, Naruto What Browser do you use? Safari Favourite Manga DragonBall/Z, Naruto, Death Note, Yugioh!	I don't think ASSJ has any drawbacks as a form, Vegeta reached this form and sopped powering up right before those supposedly drawbacks were shown. And it was made clear that speed increases along with power, hence Vegeta easily defeats FP Semi Perfect Cell.
	"Its only when we're pushed to our limits that we can truly shine!" Majin Vegeta


Vertical	Nov 3 2014, 09:46 PM Post #12
Posts: 2,542 Group: Member Member #8,475 Joined: October 27, 2012	SuperSaiyan1993 Nov 3 2014, 07:13 PM It was never evidenced in actual combat. It has a strain on speed because Goku said so. Goku only mentions the speed (or rather "agility") issue when talking about SSJ Grade 3. The only thing we know for sure about Grade 2 is that it is less balanced than regular SSJ... and being less balanced doesn't mean it's slower... for example: SSJ: Power: 10 Speed: 10 SSJG2: Power: 15 Speed: 12 This would result in SSJ being the more balanced form. (Just an example of what I'm talking about...not what I follow personally)
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Saberoph	Nov 3 2014, 09:48 PM Post #13
Posts: 11,517 Group: Member Member #5,650 Joined: January 23, 2011 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Internet Explorer Favourite Manga Dragon Ball Z	Curious though... would Mastering SS make a difference on Grade 2 and 3? What I mean is, would Grade 3 still have the same strain once regular SS is Mastered?
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Vertical	Nov 3 2014, 09:57 PM Post #14
Posts: 2,542 Group: Member Member #8,475 Joined: October 27, 2012	Master Saberoph Nov 3 2014, 09:48 PM Curious though... would Mastering SS make a difference on Grade 2 and 3? What I mean is, would Grade 3 still have the same strain once regular SS is Mastered? Well, there must be some reason for Goku/Vegeta/Trunks not using it during the Cell Games.
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SSJ	Nov 3 2014, 10:02 PM Post #15
Posts: 16,377 Group: General Member #8,258 Joined: September 8, 2012 Gender Female Country Sweden Favourite Anime Psycho Pass, Steins;Gate, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Favourite Manga One Piece, Berserk, Rurouni Kenshin, Gantz	My current theory: Super Saiyan mastered: Power: 10 Speed: 10 Resting Stamina drain: 0 Battle stamina drain: 1 SSJ Grade 2 Power: 15-20 (whatever you want) Speed: 13 Resting Stamina drain: 1 Battle stamina drain: 4 So basically, Grade 2 only starts horribly draining your energy when you are in an intense battle. Vegeta was never pressured by Semi-Cell, hence why his energy seemed fine. Against Perfect Cell it was tough to tell, but it's very possible he was losing energy quickly. Hence why he released the Final Flash early into the battle. He didn't want to wait for his stamina to drain further. However when you're just standing around in the form, it doesn't do much to you. Edited by SSJ, Nov 3 2014, 10:05 PM.



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