What if Goku was the final villain of the manga?

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What if Goku was the final villain of the manga?
Tweet Topic Started: Nov 2 2014, 10:34 AM (2,056 Views)
Hot Cakes	Nov 5 2014, 05:50 AM Post #31
Posts: 181 Group: Member Member #11,681 Joined: September 19, 2014 Gender Male Country United States What Browser do you use? Internet Explorer.	Quote: All I was offering was an idea. As I said earlier, if you cannot benefit from, or draw a successful conclusion from that idea then simply ignore it. There's no need to explain anything if you cannot see beyond your own doubts. When someone offers an idea, people have the right to express their opinions on their idea. That's a discussion. If you don't understand this then I'm quite baffled. Quote: "in order to make everyone stronger"? More conclusion jumping? At least I understand why you used the word "testing" now. I should've known you had added your own spice to the concept once again... and then accused me of it. Do you not read your own posts? You yourself posted: Quote: It would be simpler if Goku, lacking any challenge for years, simply fell into a depression. Within that slump, he realizes that no one keeps up with him because he's the only one with any drive... so, to solve that problem, he will become a reason for the others to be stronger... by playing the bad guy. Judging from you posted, Goku would be playing the guy to increase everyone's drive, which can be interpreted as him wanting to make them stronger. Quote: The point of the idea was to offer a simpler path to walk, on your own. Not to hold your hand through the entire process and force your original concept out of the "bad fan fiction" zone. If you cannot see the possibility of success down the path, then don't ask for directions or how to walk it. You offered what you considered to be a simpler alternative to the idea I posted in the OP. I have the right to post why I don't feel your idea would work. That's what people do when they discuss IDEAS. Quite simply put, you don't understand how a discussion works. Quote: Actually, at it's core, it's about a man going through a mid-life crisis. And again, nothing was said about pretending. You said he would be "playing" the bad guy. When person is "playing" at being something, one would consider them to be "pretending" to be something. If you think somebody is misinterpreting your idea, then you're supposed to CLARIFY on what you mean by it. Quote: Not willingly cause a crisis? You mean like the entire Buu arc? Goku was indirectly responsible for the Boo arc. He didn't deliberately go out of his way to cause the crisis. His decision to hold back in his fight against Vegeta ended up releasing Boo, but that's not the same thing as him actually being the one cause a crisis on his own accord. He was simply being incompetent. The same thing when he held back against Fat Boo. Being incompetent is not the same thing as directly causing something. Bobbidi was the directly responsible for Boo, because he was the one who went through great lengths to intentionally release Boo. Quote: yawn You really don't know how to handle feedback. Quote: I said "playing the bad guy"... as in "taking on the role of". I can see how you could interpret "bad guy" as an "evil person" though, so I'll clarify that he would be the "antagonist" and nothing more. OK, then you should have said so in the beginning. :/ People still wouldn't like it, though. Quote: It really is quite hard to stop posting when you're so frustratingly hostile and continue to miss the point. Please try and understand, the point of my idea wasn't to replace yours, or to instruct you on how to do it successfully. It was to highlight that there was an alternate path available for your overall goal of having Goku as the final antagonist... which is why I see no need to go into detail on it (as then it would be my story, and not yours). So, instead of trying to pry clarification/answers from me as to how I would make it work (or claiming my version would not work)... try for yourself. If you cannot succeed (as it seems you cannot write it in-character), then at least an alternative has been explored. Hopefully my point gets across this time. You offered an alternative to my idea of Goku being the final antagonist. I have the right to explain why I think it wouldn't work. Once again, it's called a discussion. That's what people do in a discussion. Why in the world should I try to find a way for your idea to work? Talk about flawed logic. This is essentially what you're saying. Person A (You): Guys, I have an idea! insert idea here Person B (Me): I don't think it would work. Person A (You): Well, find a way for it to work. That's not how things work. If anyone is supposed to come up with a way for your idea to work, it's you because it's YOUR idea. You don't want to come up with a way for your idea to work? OK. I don't think your idea would work and you haven't given me a reason to think otherwise, so there's no point in going on. Hopefully my point gets across this time. This argument we're having is very tedious. I don't think we'll be getting anywhere, so I'll leave things as is.



Vertical	Nov 5 2014, 10:29 AM Post #32
Posts: 2,542 Group: Member Member #8,475 Joined: October 27, 2012	Hot Cakes Nov 5 2014, 05:50 AM When someone offers an idea, people have the right to express their opinions on their idea. The strange thing is, I haven't denied you this right in any way. I offered the alternative, you decided it wouldn't work, I stated that I believed I could make it work, you ask how, I tell you why I won't go into it, and you continue to ask how... and then we go around in circles. Hot Cakes Nov 5 2014, 05:50 AM Do you not read your own posts? You yourself posted: Quote: It would be simpler if Goku, lacking any challenge for years, simply fell into a depression. Within that slump, he realizes that no one keeps up with him because he's the only one with any drive... so, to solve that problem, he will become a reason for the others to be stronger... by playing the bad guy. Judging from you posted, Goku would be playing the guy to increase everyone's drive, which can be interpreted as him wanting to make them stronger. You're right, I hadn't read my post. When I had posted that initially, I received an error when posting... I've clearly reworded it slightly (likely due to the minor frustration and time limitations), so my apologies... I've been recalling the statement differently. Luckily, as I said, the specifics didn't matter for that post... the specifics were supposed to be determined if the possibility was there for the idea to succeed and someone decided to follow through with it.. Hot Cakes Nov 5 2014, 05:50 AM You offered what you considered to be a simpler alternative to the idea I posted in the OP. I have the right to post why I don't feel your idea would work. Not at all disagreeing with this and I haven't from the start. Hot Cakes Nov 5 2014, 05:50 AM Goku was indirectly responsible for the Boo arc. He didn't deliberately go out of his way to cause the crisis. His decision to hold back in his fight against Vegeta ended up releasing Boo, but that's not the same thing as him actually being the one cause a crisis on his own accord. He was simply being incompetent. The same thing when he held back against Fat Boo. Being incompetent is not the same thing as directly causing something. I was thinking more along the lines of not defeating Fat Buu when he could have, or Kid Buu (though he did eventually). He has made bad decisions... and he could make bad decisions again. Hot Cakes Nov 5 2014, 05:50 AM You really don't know how to handle feedback. I simply yawned it off because, #1: Your "feedback" was "I don't like it and I know that other people won't like it" which is pretty much useless, and #2: The only feedback I was interested in when posting the idea was whether or not you, or anyone else, believed it to be a viable alternative route... as I personally would not be following it any further. Hot Cakes Nov 5 2014, 05:50 AM Why in the world should I try to find a way for your idea to work? Talk about flawed logic. This is essentially what you're saying. Person A (You): Guys, I have an idea! insert idea here Person B (Me): I don't think it would work. Person A (You): Well, find a way for it to work. That's not how things work. If anyone is supposed to come up with a way for your idea to work, it's you because it's YOUR idea. You don't want to come up with a way for your idea to work? OK. I don't think your idea would work and you haven't given me a reason to think otherwise, so there's no point in going on. Hopefully my point gets across this time. This argument we're having is very tedious. I don't think we'll be getting anywhere, so I'll leave things as is. I'm not asking you to make it work >.< I don't think it counts as an argument until we're both on the same page about what we're talking about... which we're clearly not. You're still asking me to defend my idea... when I've already said that the idea itself wasn't the point of the post. I'm not asking you to find a way to make it work... I'm not even saying you could... I'd say it's been more like this: You: I have an idea! Me: Here's alternative idea with a similar goal: blah blah You: That won't work because blah blah Me: I could make it work but seeing as this is your project, if you don't believe it can work, simply ignore it. You: Explain to me how you would make it work Me: I would make it work ...and then basically repeat the last 4 steps over and over. The idea itself was kept vague for a reason: it was intended as a starting point for a path if you chose to follow it. You clearly don't want to as you do not believe it would work... so there's nothing more to be said about it. There's no reason to know my personal vision of the finer details.
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