Naked Snake

Nov 3 2014, 12:00 AM

Environmental damage exists in DBZ (See Goku's punch in BoG)
Gai's punch caused more damage than what we were shown in DBZ

I mean, what's the logical conclusion to draw from this? That DBZ characters somehow contain the power of their punches except when they don't feel like it? Or that their punches just aren't as powerful as you're making them out to be.

Arkadom

Nov 2 2014, 11:27 PM

The person's power doesn't matter at all in that regard my friend, they could be the farmer with a shotgun or they could be Beerus, they are both about as difficult to rip open as one another. If you have any strength and can rip a person in half then it doesn't matter how strong the other person is, they still have a moral body.

King Kakarot

Nov 2 2014, 11:54 PM

wolffanghameha

Nov 2 2014, 11:48 PM

Ssj3vegito96

Nov 2 2014, 11:40 PM

Naked Snake

Nov 2 2014, 11:34 PM

Ssj3vegito96

Nov 2 2014, 11:30 PM

Naked Snake

Nov 2 2014, 11:24 PM

King Kakarot

Nov 2 2014, 11:21 PM

The fact that Gohan rips apart planet+ lvl guys with his fists s***s on anything Gai has done

I forgot those punches caused absolutely humongous craters. As Vegito said, the best environmental damage we've seen is Kaio's planet. Even if it was a result of shockwaves, you have to conclude that either Goku couldn't control his power of that he decided to not control it for no reason whatsoever and destroy Kaio's planet.

That's the best we've seen yeah but what else was their to be destroyed? Couldn't his punch have been stronger than that? It's like a gun shooting a bullet through a piece of paper even though it can go through something a lot stronger.

So, if Goku dodged a punch from Cell, how come there's literally no damage to the environment at all? Not even a pebble five feet away is blown away or anything. Punches don't have the level of power you're suggesting because it's impossible to contain their effects. With ki, you can manipulate and change it, even after you've launched it. With a punch, however, there's no way to actually 'contain' it in the same way.

Because they throw countless punches in their fights. Can you imagine if toriyama had to include the damage every single one of those missed punches(a lot of the punches are missed) caused? Would you want to do that? I know I wouldn't

Once again you're going down the route of inconsistent. If Toriyama is inconstant than anyone has an equal say as to which feat they want to pick. You are pro DBZ so you're gonna choose the stronger one and speculate on Toriyama's thinking. Someone who isn't is gonna pick the weaker ones and speculate on the author's thinking. Another person smarter than both is gonna say the debate is pointless.

If you want to have the argument in the first place you need a way to include all the feats. What I'm saying of how physical attacks hurting their bodies more than ki attacks makes sense and is consistent throughout manga and video games.

What you need to realize is energy is energy

A punch packing enough energy to harm someone with star lvl durability is impressive regardless if they don't destroy a planet with every single punch they throw


Just ask the flash

Orochimaru

Nov 3 2014, 12:04 AM

Arkadom

Nov 2 2014, 11:27 PM

The person's power doesn't matter at all in that regard my friend, they could be the farmer with a shotgun or they could be Beerus, they are both about as difficult to rip open as one another. If you have any strength and can rip a person in half then it doesn't matter how strong the other person is, they still have a moral body.

No offense but this is clearly not the case, at least not on dbz. SSJ2 Gohan is a lot stronger than Cell jr's and he ripped them apart, mind explaining me why he didnt rip Cell apart as well? Simply because he could not ,Cell's durability was just to big for Gohan's strengh to overcome alone, he needed more power to so so.

SSJ2 Gohan has enough force in his punches to actually ripped apart a fighter with planetary durability.

King Kakarot

Nov 3 2014, 12:04 AM

Naked Snake

Nov 3 2014, 12:00 AM

Environmental damage exists in DBZ (See Goku's punch in BoG)
Gai's punch caused more damage than what we were shown in DBZ

I mean, what's the logical conclusion to draw from this? That DBZ characters somehow contain the power of their punches except when they don't feel like it? Or that their punches just aren't as powerful as you're making them out to be.

Gohan ripped planet lvl guys apart with his fists

Gohan's feat is more impressive than making a crater since to harm the Cell jrs you would need Yottatons of energy and Gohan's casual punches have that

Naked Snake

Nov 3 2014, 12:09 AM

King Kakarot

Nov 3 2014, 12:04 AM

Naked Snake

Nov 3 2014, 12:00 AM

Environmental damage exists in DBZ (See Goku's punch in BoG)
Gai's punch caused more damage than what we were shown in DBZ

I mean, what's the logical conclusion to draw from this? That DBZ characters somehow contain the power of their punches except when they don't feel like it? Or that their punches just aren't as powerful as you're making them out to be.

Gohan ripped planet lvl guys apart with his fists

Gohan's feat is more impressive than making a crater since to harm the Cell jrs you would need Yottatons of energy and Gohan's casual punches have that

Hmm, weren't those Cell Kids unnerved/scared/running away? But, wouldn't that mean that their Yuuki was low? Oh my, that means they'd be more vulnerable, right?

You keep repeating the same point, but you haven't answered my question. Environmental damage exists in both series; why is Naruto's more impressive?

King Kakarot

Nov 3 2014, 12:06 AM

Orochimaru

Nov 3 2014, 12:04 AM

Arkadom

Nov 2 2014, 11:27 PM

The person's power doesn't matter at all in that regard my friend, they could be the farmer with a shotgun or they could be Beerus, they are both about as difficult to rip open as one another. If you have any strength and can rip a person in half then it doesn't matter how strong the other person is, they still have a moral body.

No offense but this is clearly not the case, at least not on dbz. SSJ2 Gohan is a lot stronger than Cell jr's and he ripped them apart, mind explaining me why he didnt rip Cell apart as well? Simply because he could not ,Cell's durability was just to big for Gohan's strengh to overcome alone, he needed more power to so so.

SSJ2 Gohan has enough force in his punches to actually ripped apart a fighter with planetary durability.

Amen gai would break his fists trying to punch base freeza let alone anything in the buu saga

King Kakarot

Nov 3 2014, 12:14 AM

Naked Snake

Nov 3 2014, 12:09 AM

King Kakarot

Nov 3 2014, 12:04 AM

Naked Snake

Nov 3 2014, 12:00 AM

Environmental damage exists in DBZ (See Goku's punch in BoG)
Gai's punch caused more damage than what we were shown in DBZ

I mean, what's the logical conclusion to draw from this? That DBZ characters somehow contain the power of their punches except when they don't feel like it? Or that their punches just aren't as powerful as you're making them out to be.

Gohan ripped planet lvl guys apart with his fists

Gohan's feat is more impressive than making a crater since to harm the Cell jrs you would need Yottatons of energy and Gohan's casual punches have that

Hmm, weren't those Cell Kids unnerved/scared/running away? But, wouldn't that mean that their Yuuki was low? Oh my, that means they'd be more vulnerable, right?

You keep repeating the same point, but you haven't answered my question. Environmental damage exists in both series; why is Naruto's more impressive?

Now these guys don't have planetary durability lol

Regardless they are still more durable than a half dead freeza who survived a planet exploding

Yeah nice environmental feat I guess he punches harder than darkseid and superman then whom the latter could only make a whole in the kent farm while feating Darkseid

So I guess Darkseid gets harmed by barn lvl punches because lol environmental damage is so important to Author's

Arkadom

Nov 3 2014, 12:16 AM

King Kakarot

Nov 3 2014, 12:06 AM

Orochimaru

Nov 3 2014, 12:04 AM

Arkadom

Nov 2 2014, 11:27 PM

The person's power doesn't matter at all in that regard my friend, they could be the farmer with a shotgun or they could be Beerus, they are both about as difficult to rip open as one another. If you have any strength and can rip a person in half then it doesn't matter how strong the other person is, they still have a moral body.

No offense but this is clearly not the case, at least not on dbz. SSJ2 Gohan is a lot stronger than Cell jr's and he ripped them apart, mind explaining me why he didnt rip Cell apart as well? Simply because he could not ,Cell's durability was just to big for Gohan's strengh to overcome alone, he needed more power to so so.

SSJ2 Gohan has enough force in his punches to actually ripped apart a fighter with planetary durability.

Amen gai would break his fists trying to punch base freeza let alone anything in the buu saga

Simple, Cell was powerful enough to actually fight back, most of the Cell Juniors didn't even have time to react to Gohan, he obliterated them instantly, whereas Cell actually fought Gohan, thus was prepared. Cell Juniors died so quickly because they did not resist, they couldn't have properly resisted. Cell could, he was powerful enough to fight off Gohan, while the Cell Juniors did not.

Also no fighter can possibly have planetary durability, that sounds more like word of mouth than factual evidence. A planet has FAR more mass and condensed energy, there are more forces acting on it than there are a human, humans only really feel the effects of friction and gravity. No human has planetary mass, so no human has planetary durability, it just does not work like that.

As for Gai, even if that were true, breaking his fists wouldn't stop him anyway, the 8th gate is so painful that it negates all other pain felt. He is practically invincible unless his body is destroyed. His bones could break but it doesn't matter, as long as his muscles function he will continue to fight unhindered, and unless there's a surprised DBZ character with the byakugan or a decent knowledge of closing chakra points without one then that's not a problem.

And I'll repeat what I said before, even without the strength and durability for a full on fight, Gai easily has the speed, one decisive move is all it takes and with a greater speed than any DBZ fighter not using instant transmission there's basically no way he could fail because even if he misses his speed is so great he could go again before the enemy had time to react.

King Kakarot

Nov 3 2014, 12:20 AM

Jeez the w*** is real

If you listen to people on this forum you would think Gai can actually harm Darkseid lol

King Kakarot

Nov 3 2014, 12:20 AM

Jeez the w*** is real

If you listen to people on this forum you would think Gai can actually harm Darkseid lol

And no gai can't rip apart cell jrs like gohan he would shatter his bones

Naked Snake

Nov 3 2014, 12:22 AM

King Kakarot

Nov 3 2014, 12:20 AM

Jeez the w*** is real

If you listen to people on this forum you would think Gai can actually harm Darkseid lol

And no gai can't rip apart cell jrs like gohan he would shatter his bones

Nice rebuttal there

King Kakarot

Nov 3 2014, 12:26 AM

Naked Snake

Nov 3 2014, 12:22 AM

King Kakarot

Nov 3 2014, 12:20 AM

Jeez the w*** is real

If you listen to people on this forum you would think Gai can actually harm Darkseid lol

And no gai can't rip apart cell jrs like gohan he would shatter his bones

Nice rebuttal there

No problem keep dreaming Gai is some threat to db characters

Whatever helps you sleep at night

The fact Gohan can Casually output yattatons of energy into his fists tells me Gai has nothing on this guy

Making a deep crater doesn't compare to Gohan's feat at all