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+ Emmeth
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Nov 2 2014, 11:39 PM
Post #76
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The fact that Gohan rips apart planet+ lvl guys with his fists s***s on anything Gai has done
I forgot those punches caused absolutely humongous craters. As Vegito said, the best environmental damage we've seen is Kaio's planet. Even if it was a result of shockwaves, you have to conclude that either Goku couldn't control his power of that he decided to not control it for no reason whatsoever and destroy Kaio's planet.
That's the best we've seen yeah but what else was their to be destroyed? Couldn't his punch have been stronger than that? It's like a gun shooting a bullet through a piece of paper even though it can go through something a lot stronger.
So, if Goku dodged a punch from Cell, how come there's literally no damage to the environment at all? Not even a pebble five feet away is blown away or anything. Punches don't have the level of power you're suggesting because it's impossible to contain their effects. With ki, you can manipulate and change it, even after you've launched it. With a punch, however, there's no way to actually 'contain' it in the same way.
Yet we see Gohan actually destroy guys more durable than planets with his fists Whether you like it or not Gohan ripped apart something more durable than a planet with his fists Again it's better than anything Gai has done
Who's more durable than a planet?
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Nov 2 2014, 11:40 PM
Post #77
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The fact that Gohan rips apart planet+ lvl guys with his fists s***s on anything Gai has done
I forgot those punches caused absolutely humongous craters. As Vegito said, the best environmental damage we've seen is Kaio's planet. Even if it was a result of shockwaves, you have to conclude that either Goku couldn't control his power of that he decided to not control it for no reason whatsoever and destroy Kaio's planet.
That's the best we've seen yeah but what else was their to be destroyed? Couldn't his punch have been stronger than that? It's like a gun shooting a bullet through a piece of paper even though it can go through something a lot stronger.
So, if Goku dodged a punch from Cell, how come there's literally no damage to the environment at all? Not even a pebble five feet away is blown away or anything. Punches don't have the level of power you're suggesting because it's impossible to contain their effects. With ki, you can manipulate and change it, even after you've launched it. With a punch, however, there's no way to actually 'contain' it in the same way.
Because they throw countless punches in their fights. Can you imagine if toriyama had to include the damage every single one of those missed punches(a lot of the punches are missed) caused? Would you want to do that? I know I wouldn't
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Nov 2 2014, 11:41 PM
Post #78
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- Nov 2 2014, 11:30 PM
@wolf that's one scenario. What about when they kick people through mountains and islands?
Well just to note you're going down the inconsistent route without realizing it, but it's fairly obvious that Goku is gonna have a much stronger punch than this Freeza. But it gets kinda weird with scaling and how punches later on should do the same amount of damage or more. You're making me argue something that wasn't in my original point. 
But now you're just trying to prove inconsistency in the manga. Anyway to continue down the route if you'd like, show a scenario where someone with a similar gap should have done more or similar damage to what happened later in the manga.
This doesn't change the fact that punches and kicks before Goku post Zenkai at that point don't destroy moons or mountains as fan scaled often around here.
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Nov 2 2014, 11:42 PM
Post #79
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Bargle nawdle zouss
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Edit:Rofl so ripping apart the farmer with a shotgun and Beerus takes the same power
Lol people these days
Yes, it does. Unless Beerus is made of something other than flesh and bone he won't be any harder to rip apart than the farmer.
In fact, Beerus is much thinner, the farmer was quite a chunky fellow, so the farmer would actually probably be harder to rip open. More mass.
Same physical strength required either way. You can try and rip 10 manga volumes in half and try it with a single book just as thick but neither one of them will be any harder or easier to rip, they require the same strength because they are made from the same material. That is Beerus and the farmer right there, 10 manga volumes, one very thick book, both require the same strength.
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Nov 2 2014, 11:42 PM
Post #80
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The fact that Gohan rips apart planet+ lvl guys with his fists s***s on anything Gai has done
I forgot those punches caused absolutely humongous craters. As Vegito said, the best environmental damage we've seen is Kaio's planet. Even if it was a result of shockwaves, you have to conclude that either Goku couldn't control his power of that he decided to not control it for no reason whatsoever and destroy Kaio's planet.
That's the best we've seen yeah but what else was their to be destroyed? Couldn't his punch have been stronger than that? It's like a gun shooting a bullet through a piece of paper even though it can go through something a lot stronger.
So, if Goku dodged a punch from Cell, how come there's literally no damage to the environment at all? Not even a pebble five feet away is blown away or anything. Punches don't have the level of power you're suggesting because it's impossible to contain their effects. With ki, you can manipulate and change it, even after you've launched it. With a punch, however, there's no way to actually 'contain' it in the same way.
Yet we see Gohan actually destroy guys more durable than planets with his fists Whether you like it or not Gohan ripped apart something more durable than a planet with his fists Again it's better than anything Gai has done
Who's more durable than a planet?
Cell jrs............
Edit:Beerus and the farmer with a shotgun have the same durability right? Lmfao
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* Yu Narukami
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Nov 2 2014, 11:42 PM
Post #81
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Izanagi!
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The fact that Gohan rips apart planet+ lvl guys with his fists s***s on anything Gai has done
I forgot those punches caused absolutely humongous craters. As Vegito said, the best environmental damage we've seen is Kaio's planet. Even if it was a result of shockwaves, you have to conclude that either Goku couldn't control his power of that he decided to not control it for no reason whatsoever and destroy Kaio's planet.
That's the best we've seen yeah but what else was their to be destroyed? Couldn't his punch have been stronger than that? It's like a gun shooting a bullet through a piece of paper even though it can go through something a lot stronger.
So, if Goku dodged a punch from Cell, how come there's literally no damage to the environment at all? Not even a pebble five feet away is blown away or anything. Punches don't have the level of power you're suggesting because it's impossible to contain their effects. With ki, you can manipulate and change it, even after you've launched it. With a punch, however, there's no way to actually 'contain' it in the same way.
Yet we see Gohan actually destroy guys more durable than planets with his fists Whether you like it or not Gohan ripped apart something more durable than a planet with his fists Again it's better than anything Gai has done
Ooo, now, y'see, I've got a bit of an issue with that. Let's compare environmental damage and shockwaves, shall we?
DBZ;
Goku launches Chi-Chi out of the ring at the 23rd Budokai by punching at the air
Goku destroys part of Kaio's planet by punching the air where Bills was
Naruto;
Gai creates an absolutely humongous crater that is unbelievably deep with a punch
I mean, it's quite obvious that Toriyama acknowledged environmental damage because it happened in BoG.
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+ Emmeth
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Nov 2 2014, 11:43 PM
Post #82
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I ♥ Yoeri
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The fact that Gohan rips apart planet+ lvl guys with his fists s***s on anything Gai has done
I forgot those punches caused absolutely humongous craters. As Vegito said, the best environmental damage we've seen is Kaio's planet. Even if it was a result of shockwaves, you have to conclude that either Goku couldn't control his power of that he decided to not control it for no reason whatsoever and destroy Kaio's planet.
That's the best we've seen yeah but what else was their to be destroyed? Couldn't his punch have been stronger than that? It's like a gun shooting a bullet through a piece of paper even though it can go through something a lot stronger.
So, if Goku dodged a punch from Cell, how come there's literally no damage to the environment at all? Not even a pebble five feet away is blown away or anything. Punches don't have the level of power you're suggesting because it's impossible to contain their effects. With ki, you can manipulate and change it, even after you've launched it. With a punch, however, there's no way to actually 'contain' it in the same way.
Yet we see Gohan actually destroy guys more durable than planets with his fists Whether you like it or not Gohan ripped apart something more durable than a planet with his fists Again it's better than anything Gai has done
Who's more durable than a planet?
Cell jrs............
Can you prove it?
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Nov 2 2014, 11:46 PM
Post #83
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The fact that Gohan rips apart planet+ lvl guys with his fists s***s on anything Gai has done
I forgot those punches caused absolutely humongous craters. As Vegito said, the best environmental damage we've seen is Kaio's planet. Even if it was a result of shockwaves, you have to conclude that either Goku couldn't control his power of that he decided to not control it for no reason whatsoever and destroy Kaio's planet.
That's the best we've seen yeah but what else was their to be destroyed? Couldn't his punch have been stronger than that? It's like a gun shooting a bullet through a piece of paper even though it can go through something a lot stronger.
So, if Goku dodged a punch from Cell, how come there's literally no damage to the environment at all? Not even a pebble five feet away is blown away or anything. Punches don't have the level of power you're suggesting because it's impossible to contain their effects. With ki, you can manipulate and change it, even after you've launched it. With a punch, however, there's no way to actually 'contain' it in the same way.
Yet we see Gohan actually destroy guys more durable than planets with his fists Whether you like it or not Gohan ripped apart something more durable than a planet with his fists Again it's better than anything Gai has done
Who's more durable than a planet?
Cell jrs............
Can you prove it?
Cell jrs>>>>100% Freeza>>>>>>left for dead and cut in half freeza>a planet exploding
Edit:those feats don't compare to Gohan becuase Gohan punching the cell Jr's takes more energy to do
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+ Emmeth
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Nov 2 2014, 11:47 PM
Post #84
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I ♥ Yoeri
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The fact that Gohan rips apart planet+ lvl guys with his fists s***s on anything Gai has done
I forgot those punches caused absolutely humongous craters. As Vegito said, the best environmental damage we've seen is Kaio's planet. Even if it was a result of shockwaves, you have to conclude that either Goku couldn't control his power of that he decided to not control it for no reason whatsoever and destroy Kaio's planet.
That's the best we've seen yeah but what else was their to be destroyed? Couldn't his punch have been stronger than that? It's like a gun shooting a bullet through a piece of paper even though it can go through something a lot stronger.
So, if Goku dodged a punch from Cell, how come there's literally no damage to the environment at all? Not even a pebble five feet away is blown away or anything. Punches don't have the level of power you're suggesting because it's impossible to contain their effects. With ki, you can manipulate and change it, even after you've launched it. With a punch, however, there's no way to actually 'contain' it in the same way.
Yet we see Gohan actually destroy guys more durable than planets with his fists Whether you like it or not Gohan ripped apart something more durable than a planet with his fists Again it's better than anything Gai has done
Who's more durable than a planet?
Cell jrs............
Can you prove it?
Cell jrs>>>>100% Freeza>>>>>>left for dead and cut in half freeza>a planet exploding
Fair enough.
---
General note to everyone:
I feel like we just need to back up our claims. If we don't, we'll get an infinite circle of completely unnecessary bicker.
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Mihawk
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Nov 2 2014, 11:48 PM
Post #85
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The fact that Gohan rips apart planet+ lvl guys with his fists s***s on anything Gai has done
I forgot those punches caused absolutely humongous craters. As Vegito said, the best environmental damage we've seen is Kaio's planet. Even if it was a result of shockwaves, you have to conclude that either Goku couldn't control his power of that he decided to not control it for no reason whatsoever and destroy Kaio's planet.
That's the best we've seen yeah but what else was their to be destroyed? Couldn't his punch have been stronger than that? It's like a gun shooting a bullet through a piece of paper even though it can go through something a lot stronger.
So, if Goku dodged a punch from Cell, how come there's literally no damage to the environment at all? Not even a pebble five feet away is blown away or anything. Punches don't have the level of power you're suggesting because it's impossible to contain their effects. With ki, you can manipulate and change it, even after you've launched it. With a punch, however, there's no way to actually 'contain' it in the same way.
Because they throw countless punches in their fights. Can you imagine if toriyama had to include the damage every single one of those missed punches(a lot of the punches are missed) caused? Would you want to do that? I know I wouldn't
Once again you're going down the route of inconsistent. If Toriyama is inconstant than anyone has an equal say as to which feat they want to pick. You are pro DBZ so you're gonna choose the stronger one and speculate on Toriyama's thinking. Someone who isn't is gonna pick the weaker ones and speculate on the author's thinking. Another person smarter than both is gonna say the debate is pointless.
If you want to have the argument in the first place you need a way to include all the feats. What I'm saying of how physical attacks hurting their bodies more than ki attacks makes sense and is consistent throughout manga and video games.
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* Yu Narukami
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Nov 2 2014, 11:49 PM
Post #86
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Izanagi!
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The fact that Gohan rips apart planet+ lvl guys with his fists s***s on anything Gai has done
I forgot those punches caused absolutely humongous craters. As Vegito said, the best environmental damage we've seen is Kaio's planet. Even if it was a result of shockwaves, you have to conclude that either Goku couldn't control his power of that he decided to not control it for no reason whatsoever and destroy Kaio's planet.
That's the best we've seen yeah but what else was their to be destroyed? Couldn't his punch have been stronger than that? It's like a gun shooting a bullet through a piece of paper even though it can go through something a lot stronger.
So, if Goku dodged a punch from Cell, how come there's literally no damage to the environment at all? Not even a pebble five feet away is blown away or anything. Punches don't have the level of power you're suggesting because it's impossible to contain their effects. With ki, you can manipulate and change it, even after you've launched it. With a punch, however, there's no way to actually 'contain' it in the same way.
Yet we see Gohan actually destroy guys more durable than planets with his fists Whether you like it or not Gohan ripped apart something more durable than a planet with his fists Again it's better than anything Gai has done
Who's more durable than a planet?
Cell jrs............
Can you prove it?
Cell jrs>>>>100% Freeza>>>>>>left for dead and cut in half freeza>a planet exploding Edit:those feats don't compare to Gohan becuase Gohan punching the cell Jr's takes more energy to do
Despite the fact that we never see any character do anything close to what Gai did? Awesome.
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Arkadom
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Nov 2 2014, 11:53 PM
Post #87
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Bargle nawdle zouss
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Edit:Beerus and the farmer with a shotgun have the same durability right? Lmfao
It's not a matter of durability. If both characters stepped up and allowed one person to try and rip them in half willingly with no resistance, they have exactly the same breaking point, the same strength is required to rip them in half.
Your argument is invalid seeing as all you have to offer are assumptions and internet abbreviations that don't make you seem anything but overconfident. You've provided nothing of value.
Picture yourself and someone heavy set such as a very large and muscular boxer, any guy you like. Imagine the strongest person in the world trying to rip both of you in half. They will wind up using the same amount of strength on both of you because you are both made of flesh, bone and muscle tissue, regardless of the fact that the guy next to you has the physique of a professional athlete and the musculature to prove it.
The same goes for manga and anime characters, believe it or not. If you are made of the same material as another living being, no matter how much more powerful, you are, if someone is strong enough to rip you in half then they can do the same to anything else made of the same stuff as you.
So again, unless Beerus is actually Wolverine and his bones are laced with adamantium, he has the same breaking point as the farmer.
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King Kakarot
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Nov 2 2014, 11:54 PM
Post #88
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The fact that Gohan rips apart planet+ lvl guys with his fists s***s on anything Gai has done
I forgot those punches caused absolutely humongous craters. As Vegito said, the best environmental damage we've seen is Kaio's planet. Even if it was a result of shockwaves, you have to conclude that either Goku couldn't control his power of that he decided to not control it for no reason whatsoever and destroy Kaio's planet.
That's the best we've seen yeah but what else was their to be destroyed? Couldn't his punch have been stronger than that? It's like a gun shooting a bullet through a piece of paper even though it can go through something a lot stronger.
So, if Goku dodged a punch from Cell, how come there's literally no damage to the environment at all? Not even a pebble five feet away is blown away or anything. Punches don't have the level of power you're suggesting because it's impossible to contain their effects. With ki, you can manipulate and change it, even after you've launched it. With a punch, however, there's no way to actually 'contain' it in the same way.
Because they throw countless punches in their fights. Can you imagine if toriyama had to include the damage every single one of those missed punches(a lot of the punches are missed) caused? Would you want to do that? I know I wouldn't
Once again you're going down the route of inconsistent. If Toriyama is inconstant than anyone has an equal say as to which feat they want to pick. You are pro DBZ so you're gonna choose the stronger one and speculate on Toriyama's thinking. Someone who isn't is gonna pick the weaker ones and speculate on the author's thinking. Another person smarter than both is gonna say the debate is pointless. If you want to have the argument in the first place you need a way to include all the feats. What I'm saying of how physical attacks hurting their bodies more than ki attacks makes sense and is consistent throughout manga and video games.
What you need to realize is energy is energy
A punch packing enough energy to harm someone with star lvl durability is impressive regardless if they don't destroy a planet with every single punch they throw
Just ask the flash
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* Yu Narukami
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Nov 3 2014, 12:00 AM
Post #89
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Izanagi!
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Environmental damage exists in DBZ (See Goku's punch in BoG)
Gai's punch caused more damage than what we were shown in DBZ
I mean, what's the logical conclusion to draw from this? That DBZ characters somehow contain the power of their punches except when they don't feel like it? Or that their punches just aren't as powerful as you're making them out to be.
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Nov 3 2014, 12:01 AM
Post #90
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
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Yeah when have DBZ characters ever been able to fire air like a cannon with sheer strength?
Ki is an undoubtedly great power but it's pretty damn slow.
I don't see why people can't get that strength and busting power don't scale linearly. Just because Gai can't blow up planets doesn't mean he can't have better attirbutes in other areas Naruto isn't about flashy planet busting stuff.
If you've noticed while Ki does massive amounts of environmental damage it takes concentrated beams to actually do serious damage, SBC, Death Beam, (not beams but disc types too)
Then you have explosions not doing much, like Piccolo's on Goku destroyed a lot of stuff on the surface of the island but did hardly anything to Goku who was almost completely equal to Piccolo and right in front of him.
Whereas you see punches and general physical strength breaking arms and whatever else Ki does minor surface damage half the time.
So yeah their physical attacks do damage in a more valuable way, they get past ones "Ki shield" if you will which without they can't take much physical trauma, still superhuman levels of course but not that incredible compared to most verses.
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Definitely not a succubus, fear not
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4:39 PM Jul 13