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Do sexism and racism go hand in hand?
Topic Started: Oct 29 2014, 03:48 PM (3,397 Views)
* Mitas
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It truly was a Shawshank redemption

ObsessiveFanGirl
Oct 30 2014, 12:43 PM
Jet
Oct 30 2014, 06:31 AM
Ketchup Revenge
Oct 30 2014, 04:25 AM
Master Gohan
Oct 30 2014, 01:57 AM
Pelador
Oct 30 2014, 01:54 AM
You don't find that a bit contradictory?
No. I enjoy seeing women naked, how does that equate to disrespecting women? I sure do not.

Girls value guys for appearance as well, but guys are usually valued by girls by their personality, not so much their appearance.

Yeah, no. Extremely sexist thing to say.
It's a stereotype that is, unfortunately, true. In our society, men are more often valued for their personality and success while women are valued for their looks. This is a fact. It's been this way for hundreds of years.
I think in the present day, this is a problem that is accentuated by the media. I really don't think that guys value appearance as much as you seem to think, and I think they value personality more than you seem to think.
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Exactly. I never said that. I said it was a stereotype. One enforced by our media and culture.
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* Mitas
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It truly was a Shawshank redemption

You said it was a stereotype that was 'unfortunately true'.
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"Next time?"
"Course. Doing better next time. That's what life is."
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Doggo Champion 2k17
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It is true in many cases. Especially in the media. Girls look up to role models who are known for their beauty. They are given unrealistic expectations of what they should look like. Men are given strong, successful, wealthy role models and are encouraged to strive for success and find a wife who meets a certain standard of beauty.

Edit: I don't think you're really understanding what I'm saying, so I'll try to explain before I have to go to class. Gender stereotypes are enforced by the media, which therefore affects cultural standards, which creates stereotypes. These stereotypes have existed for centuries and still haven't been eradicated. For example, women who sleep around a lot are still considered lovely ladys while men are often encouraged to have sex. Let me give you a scenario.

Woman who is a virgin at 22: "Oh, you're still a virgin? So you're saving yourself for marriage? That's awesome! I wish I could have been that pure."

Man who is a virgin at 22: "Oh, you're still a virgin? I'm sorry, dude. Maybe you just haven't found the right girl yet?"

Even our language is stereotyped. We have words like "b***" which, when used for different genders, have totally different meanings. When someone calls a girl a b***, they usually mean that she is a bossy, know it all, rude person. When someone calls a guy a b***, it's used to demean him, to make him feel like a pussy (AKA. a woman).

"Quit being such a b***," when aimed at a man means "Quit being such a pussy. Man up."

"Quit being such a b***," when aimed at a woman means "Are you on your period or something? Quit being such a bossy jerk."

Those are only a couple of examples of stereotypes that exist in our society. I could go on, but I have to go to class.
Edited by Doggo Champion 2k17, Oct 30 2014, 01:40 PM.
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* Mitas
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It truly was a Shawshank redemption

I wasn't denying any of the scenarios you mentioned, nor was I denying that gender stereotypes exist. I was just taking umbrage with the idea being put forward in this topic that men are shallow pigs that value looks over everything, and that women are the opposite, because that's just not the case, at least in my own view (as a male) and my experience with male and female friends. That is a gender stereotype that is sexist towards men, that is not seen as a stereotype by many women, but seen as the truth. That was my problem.
Edited by Mitas, Oct 30 2014, 01:52 PM.
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"Next time?"
"Course. Doing better next time. That's what life is."
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* Yu Narukami
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Izanagi!

To say those stereotypes are true is conjecture. You're saying that they're true based on subjective, isolated instances and are generalising huuuuuugely.
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Naked Snake
Oct 30 2014, 01:51 PM
To say those stereotypes are true is conjecture. You're saying that they're true based on subjective, isolated instances and are generalising huuuuuugely.
Elaborate please?
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Buuberries
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No

tbf the reason things become a stereotype is that they're based on reality. they exist not just because of one instance of a certain phenomena (for lack of a better term) but because there's hefty occurence of whatever it is. yes, not every person will fall within a stereotype, but for every person that doesnt i'm sure there's at least another couple people who do.

tl;dr - stereotypes aren't conjecture, but they don't apply to every person either.


edit: i'd also like to add that i admit to being shallow and whilst i want a woman to be intelligent, interesting, fun, kind, and all those other good s*** people like, i also want her to look good. so yea
Edited by Buuberries, Oct 30 2014, 02:43 PM.
¯\(°_o)/¯
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Buuberries
Oct 30 2014, 02:42 PM
tbf the reason things become a stereotype is that they're based on reality. they exist not just because of one instance of a certain phenomena (for lack of a better term) but because there's hefty occurence of whatever it is. yes, not every person will fall within a stereotype, but for every person that doesnt i'm sure there's at least another couple people who do.

tl;dr - stereotypes aren't conjecture, but they don't apply to every person either.
Thank you.


To say that these stereotypes don't actually exist wouldn't make much sense. That's what I'm attempting to get at here. They wouldn't be stereotypes if they weren't a problem.
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* Yu Narukami
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Izanagi!

Well, if you'd carried out some sort of broad, sociological study, then there wouldn't be a problem. However, all you're proving currently is that a particular stereotype is prevalent in the area that you live in.
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Buuberries
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No

it's not true for everyone -- ofc it isnt. i think ofg's point is the fact that these stereotypes exist in the first place is what's problematic. there are a lot of things in society that just are and people take them without question or looking at it in any other perspective.

take s*** like holding the door for people or offering a seat to a woman on the bus. i was taught to behave that way as a kid by my mum, and now i just do it without thinking. if i see an elderly person on the bus regardless of sex, i'll offer them my seat. admittedly, if they're not elderly, then i tend to do it more towards women. when it comes to holding the door open for people, again, i just do it without even thinking about it, but that's more of a general thing and idgaf about their sex.

now i'm sure there are feminists out there who will see what i and plenty of other people do and think, "wow, that punk thinks women aren't as capable as men to stand up on their own two feet/open a door for themselves" or w/e the f*** they like to think.


that's why even though i don't necessarily agree with a lot of the radical feminist beliefs, regardless of what's been going on and what they say and whatever research studies they pull out, we should still appreciate the fact that they've brought forward a new perspective in which we can look at society. n s***. innit.
the best way i can explain that is this: even the most feminist man ever still wont fully comprehend what he's fighting for because he's not a women and he cant experience things the way a woman does.
Edited by Buuberries, Oct 30 2014, 04:12 PM.
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* Mitas
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It truly was a Shawshank redemption

Buuberries
Oct 30 2014, 02:42 PM
edit: i'd also like to add that i admit to being shallow and whilst i want a woman to be intelligent, interesting, fun, kind, and all those other good s*** people like, i also want her to look good. so yea
It's not shallow to value looks as an important factor. Finding someone physically attractive is a big part of being attracted to them. But there are multiple factors, all of them important, that come into play e.g. looks, personality, sense of humour, hobbies and interests. It becomes shallow when looks are the only thing you look for in a person.
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"Then you've got the chance to do better next time."
"Next time?"
"Course. Doing better next time. That's what life is."
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Return Of Imjustsaiyanbro
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Master Gohan
Oct 30 2014, 01:39 AM
ObsessiveFanGirl
Oct 29 2014, 09:58 PM
It makes our society looks at women as sex objects rather than human beings. Men are rarely portrayed in that light. Young minds are obviously molded by media. I don't want to write a long post explaining it, but it's pretty obvious.
That's so far-fetched honestly. Unless a man is a total idiot that's what he will see, but a majority of us do not see women as sex-objects. Just because men want to see women portrayed in sexy ways does not mean we don't respect women or anything of the sort.
It's not far-fetched. It's facts tbh.

I think society and what the media portrays can effect people's mindset. I could use the example of lightskin vs. darkskin. A fairer complexion has always been taught as more attractive and better looking. We've got blacks laughing at dark skin and bleaching their skin to be lighter. It doesn't just happen here but it's even worse in countries like Cuba and Dominican Republic.

Or how we've always been taught that by tradition men can only be attracted to women and vice versa. And if a man/boy doesn't fit this mold you're supposed to be feminine or less of a man. Which is why I think the word "gay" is used as an insult by younger kids so much.
Edited by Return Of Imjustsaiyanbro, Oct 30 2014, 03:58 PM.
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Doggo Champion 2k17
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I think the piece "The Social Organization of Masculinity" by Raewyn Connell would work well with this discussion. You can probably find it on google, and it's a quick read - very enlightening.

Edit: actually, now that I think about it, that reading is pretty dense... I can just summarize it or something after my classes.
Edited by Doggo Champion 2k17, Oct 30 2014, 04:58 PM.
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Master Gohan
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I think she's generalizing way too much though. Obviously this happens, and I admitted to that. But she is making it out like its a HUGE problem that plagues a majority of people, when it simply doesn't. Every person in the world wants their partner to be hot, and anyone that says no is just lying. Men care about personality, especially for a committed relationship. No man wants a demon who is a super model. (Maybe some, but they never work out)

I just think this is being made out to be a bigger problem than it really is. I hardly ever see anybody being sexist, ever.

Edited by Master Gohan, Oct 30 2014, 06:59 PM.
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