Final German State Gets Rid Of Higher Education Fees [Discussion]

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Final German State Gets Rid Of Higher Education Fees [Discussion]
Tweet Topic Started: Oct 2 2014, 03:00 AM (706 Views)
Mihawk	Oct 2 2014, 03:00 AM Post #1
Posts: 4,804 Group: Prodigy Member #4,783 Joined: March 2, 2010 Gender Not Specified	http://thinkprogress.org/education/2014/10/01/3574551/germany-free-college-tuition/ I'm sick of the amount we pay here in the US (and those in the UK). I personally do the best I can to not contribute to the system. I believe the government subsidies (loans, aid) are contributing to the rise. The way I see it, either stop all forms of subsidies and support completely, or have the government cover it completely.



SSJ	Oct 2 2014, 03:06 AM Post #2
Posts: 16,377 Group: General Member #8,258 Joined: September 8, 2012 Gender Female Country Sweden Favourite Anime Psycho Pass, Steins;Gate, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Favourite Manga One Piece, Berserk, Rurouni Kenshin, Gantz	It especially sucks if you're from Canada and want to go in the US. The international fees are like paying another mortgage. I agree with your last sentence.



lucrowe	Oct 2 2014, 03:17 AM Post #3
Posts: 1,149 Group: Member Member #11,578 Joined: August 5, 2014 Gender Male Favourite Anime Gantz What Browser do you use? Chrome Favourite Manga Not much of a fan..	The American education system is a joke! Australia's is way better. You guys should come here if you want to study. You get a very fair 'HEX' debt in Australia, which means you study for free, with the finest education your grades allow you to attain, and you pay the debt off bit by bit whenever you earn over a certain amount per year. It comes from your wage just like tax does, and it's only a small percent, so you don't even notice the charge!
	"I'm not in it for the money, I'm rapping to be relevant, Spittin' for the hell of it to get me in my element and stomp whack rappers like an elephant... I'm the celebrant delegate spittin' elegant benevolence" - Lucrowe MC. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Lucrowe-MC/661247567303948?ref=bookmarks Str8 Outta Namek, A Crazy Mutha Fka Named Lucrowe


+ Pelador	Oct 2 2014, 03:51 AM Post #4
Crazy Awesome Legend Posts: 25,663 Group: Legend Member #4,634 Joined: December 12, 2009 Gender Not Specified Country None Favourite Anime HunterxHunter What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Dragonball	The UK system isn't that unfair when you actually look at it properly. You only pay back your student loans when your wage meets a certain level but the amount you have to pay back annually is quite pitiful apparently. Especially since the amount is relative to your yearly salary. That being said, I don't know how much of a difference it makes whether the government pays for university fees or the students do. Standards are probably the same either way.
	http://www.youtube.com/user/jonjits


* Ketchup Revenge	Oct 2 2014, 04:58 AM Post #5
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!" Posts: 6,083 Group: Retired Forum Moderator Member #9,012 Joined: February 9, 2013 Gender Not Specified Country Chile Favourite Anime FMA: Brotherhood, Dragon Ball, Samurai Champloo, Soul Eater, Assassination Classroom What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Fullmetal Alchemist, Assassination Classroom, Deadman Wonderland	Germany's got the right idea, however, Germany's educational costs are probably nowhere near what they are here in the US. The reason why education costs are so high in the US is because Professors hire multiple assistants, and don't really do a whole lot themselves. If you go to a four year college in the US, most of the time your class is being taught by one of several assistants hired by the professor, and you don't really see the professor themselves. All the professors do is grade tests and make the daily education plan. Not to mention that you also need to account for all the services that the College provides, and the salaries of the people in the offices. So cost-wise, not only are you paying for the professor's salary, but the salary of all the assistants as well, and the services of the school. The US is about 14 Trillion dollars in debt, and student loans alone make up about 1 trillion of that debt. This was the reason last year why the US Government was considering getting rid of student loans. However, this is completely stupid considering that illegal immigrants can now go to college for free (paid for by the government). The conditions however are that they have to have been here since they were kids, and they have to promise to go for legal citizenship once their schooling is done. It's similar to healthcare in the US. US doctors get paid a lot more than most other doctors in other countries, as well as the nurses in the US get paid a lot more than their counterparts in other countries. Costs aren't regulated in the US due to "free enterprise", and hospitals are privately owned, therefore they charge whatever the hell they want for whatever they want. They even charge a several hundred dollar service fee for each room you use. Everything else is also accounted for like toilet paper and basic toiletries. Not to mention that medical supply companies also charge whatever they want for their products as well. So if you don't have insurance, you can go into the hospital in the US for something as simple as a pulled muscle, and walk away with a $10,000 medical bill. It's absolutely asinine. Even with good medical insurance, you could end up spending $1,500-$2,000 out of pocket. Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Oct 2 2014, 05:08 AM.
	The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him.


+ Ginyu	Oct 2 2014, 05:33 AM Post #6
Leve Feyenoord 1! Posts: 4,490 Group: Elite Member Member #9,685 Joined: June 30, 2013 Gender Female Country Netherlands Favourite Anime NJPW What Browser do you use? Chrome Favourite Manga Reading is for nerds, yo!	In the Netherlands our college tuitions used to be free, but recently we set up a loan system again. Many students including me are outraged, one of the few things we were doing right here and now we're changing it. I realize we have to save money, but to cut back on education is plain stupid. The amount of students in colleges will be going down drastically the next years.
	Ask GinyuTokusentai


Meowth	Oct 2 2014, 05:48 AM Post #7
=._.= Posts: 130,670 Group: Princess Member #23 Joined: November 22, 2004 Gender Female Country United Kingdom Favourite Anime The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya What Browser do you use? FireFox Favourite Manga Fruits Basket	Pelador Oct 2 2014, 03:51 AM The UK system isn't that unfair when you actually look at it properly. You only pay back your student loans when your wage meets a certain level but the amount you have to pay back annually is quite pitiful apparently. Especially since the amount is relative to your yearly salary. That being said, I don't know how much of a difference it makes whether the government pays for university fees or the students do. Standards are probably the same either way. Do you have any idea what it feels like to be stuck with an unpayable debt? It's not very fun, granted mine is nowhere near as bad as those going to university after the 9k fee change. The fees in the UK got raised so the government could cut the subsidies that it paid to universities. Also, unpaid debt is now getting sold off to debt collectors after a certain amount of time, which also, not a good thing. Governments cut the wrong things.



~~CheckMateIzGod~~	Oct 2 2014, 06:54 AM Post #8
Posts: 378 Group: Suspended Member #10,783 Joined: January 26, 2014 Gender Male Favourite Anime Dbz and many other show's What Browser do you use? i commute between many browser's Favourite Manga none	In my opinion this "model" choosen by the German's has disadvantages which will affect primarily the students, public and the given university. One primary disadvantage of this "model" is that the "quality" of education will decrease.The "programs" offered by these universities will also be of "low" quality .These "free colleges or universities" may also face poor "fundings", due to which they may fail to get "hands" on "experienced professors". Yes, it can be argued that in the "short run" students would seem to "profit" more out of this model, but its far from it, and its quite "naive".And also a common man is forced to pay this costs even if he chooses to not attend any of these universities.
	Quote: Elite:I like my Glasses.They make me look badass.


lucrowe	Oct 2 2014, 08:44 AM Post #9
Posts: 1,149 Group: Member Member #11,578 Joined: August 5, 2014 Gender Male Favourite Anime Gantz What Browser do you use? Chrome Favourite Manga Not much of a fan..	How much a week does the UK have to pay back??
	"I'm not in it for the money, I'm rapping to be relevant, Spittin' for the hell of it to get me in my element and stomp whack rappers like an elephant... I'm the celebrant delegate spittin' elegant benevolence" - Lucrowe MC. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Lucrowe-MC/661247567303948?ref=bookmarks Str8 Outta Namek, A Crazy Mutha Fka Named Lucrowe


Rockman	Oct 2 2014, 09:49 AM Post #10
hoighty-toighty Posts: 11,070 Group: Guardian Member #48 Joined: December 17, 2004 Gender Male Country United States What Browser do you use? Firefox, when it isn't crashing.	CheckMateIzGod Oct 2 2014, 06:54 AM In my opinion this "model" choosen by the German's has disadvantages which will affect primarily the students, public and the given university. One primary disadvantage of this "model" is that the "quality" of education will decrease.The "programs" offered by these universities will also be of "low" quality .These "free colleges or universities" may also face poor "fundings", due to which they may fail to get "hands" on "experienced professors". Yes, it can be argued that in the "short run" students would seem to "profit" more out of this model, but its far from it, and its quite "naive".And also a common man is forced to pay this costs even if he chooses to not attend any of these universities. Yeah. It's a socialist system. The money has to come from somewhere. A little bit from everyone in taxes to keep students from having a 6 digit debt for wanting to become a surgeon sounds like a better deal in my mind. In the government's eyes, they already have the money back they don't have to wait for the student to get that art history degree and pay off 50k in debt. If ever. Also to your other """""""""points""""""""", this is Germany we are talking about here. Not America. Just because America funds their schools based on performance levels and leaves some schools with poor funding because it has a higher percentage of minorities, doesn't mean Germany does the same thing. In fact I'll venture that Germany is beyond that and puts education at a much higher priority. Also no one said that professor salary was going to change, which is the only reason I could think of as to why "hands" or "experienced professors" with "low" quality was brought up. I can't help it but when I read your posts I imagine if you were standing in front of me speaking and doing air quotes with your fingers the whole time. Slowing particular words down and pausing your sentences in order to get a couple of finger bends in.
	JAke is a copyright of Spazo and Pickle Flavored Fudge Pops inc.


Meowth	Oct 2 2014, 04:06 PM Post #11
=._.= Posts: 130,670 Group: Princess Member #23 Joined: November 22, 2004 Gender Female Country United Kingdom Favourite Anime The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya What Browser do you use? FireFox Favourite Manga Fruits Basket	CheckMateIzGod Oct 2 2014, 06:54 AM Yes, it can be argued that in the "short run" students would seem to "profit" more out of this model, but its far from it, and its quite "naive".And also a common man is forced to pay this costs even if he chooses to not attend any of these universities. Common man or woman I think you mean, as I don't believe universities are just full of men, I mean they might be at Air-Quote U, but normal university are generally quite relaxed about gender, same with governments when it comes to tax. Regardless of this, education is one thing I think should be free, along with many other things, if someone doesn't want to go to university, that is their choice that they have decided to make. The common person, working class, low income family, struggles with university payments and getting a higher level of education than the privileged few. Do those born into wealth deserve better education more than those born into poverty? No. I shall leave you with this old sketch about privatisation.



Mihawk	Oct 2 2014, 06:32 PM Post #12
Posts: 4,804 Group: Prodigy Member #4,783 Joined: March 2, 2010 Gender Not Specified	Ketchup Revenge Oct 2 2014, 04:58 AM Germany's got the right idea, however, Germany's educational costs are probably nowhere near what they are here in the US. The reason why education costs are so high in the US is because Professors hire multiple assistants, and don't really do a whole lot themselves. If you go to a four year college in the US, most of the time your class is being taught by one of several assistants hired by the professor, and you don't really see the professor themselves. All the professors do is grade tests and make the daily education plan. Not to mention that you also need to account for all the services that the College provides, and the salaries of the people in the offices. So cost-wise, not only are you paying for the professor's salary, but the salary of all the assistants as well, and the services of the school. The US is about 14 Trillion dollars in debt, and student loans alone make up about 1 trillion of that debt. This was the reason last year why the US Government was considering getting rid of student loans. However, this is completely stupid considering that illegal immigrants can now go to college for free (paid for by the government). The conditions however are that they have to have been here since they were kids, and they have to promise to go for legal citizenship once their schooling is done. It's similar to healthcare in the US. US doctors get paid a lot more than most other doctors in other countries, as well as the nurses in the US get paid a lot more than their counterparts in other countries. Costs aren't regulated in the US due to "free enterprise", and hospitals are privately owned, therefore they charge whatever the hell they want for whatever they want. They even charge a several hundred dollar service fee for each room you use. Everything else is also accounted for like toilet paper and basic toiletries. Not to mention that medical supply companies also charge whatever they want for their products as well. So if you don't have insurance, you can go into the hospital in the US for something as simple as a pulled muscle, and walk away with a $10,000 medical bill. It's absolutely asinine. Even with good medical insurance, you could end up spending $1,500-$2,000 out of pocket. Well from my experience the only classes that have an overwhelming amount of TAs are the huge lecture classes which they're trying to cut down on. I've only had a handful of them. I'd wager the real reason for the absurd costs is the capitalism+subsidy combo. The market is supposed to correct itself when the rates reach absurd levels, but when you constantly pump money into those absurd rates through government funding you just worsen the issue. Now if the government takes over completely, or at least the majority of the funding, there's more accountability on expenditure. @CheckMateIzGod do you have actual evidence of completely socialized systems being worse off than whatever weird hybrid system we have here in the US?



+ Ginyu	Oct 3 2014, 05:23 AM Post #13
Leve Feyenoord 1! Posts: 4,490 Group: Elite Member Member #9,685 Joined: June 30, 2013 Gender Female Country Netherlands Favourite Anime NJPW What Browser do you use? Chrome Favourite Manga Reading is for nerds, yo!	CheckMateIzGod Oct 2 2014, 06:54 AM In my opinion this "model" choosen by the German's has disadvantages which will affect primarily the students, public and the given university. One primary disadvantage of this "model" is that the "quality" of education will decrease.The "programs" offered by these universities will also be of "low" quality .These "free colleges or universities" may also face poor "fundings", due to which they may fail to get "hands" on "experienced professors". Yes, it can be argued that in the "short run" students would seem to "profit" more out of this model, but its far from it, and its quite "naive".And also a common man is forced to pay this costs even if he chooses to not attend any of these universities. Two things: 1. Your quotation marks are really random, please stop them, It's annoying to read. 2. Do you have any source to confirm that these social systems are worde than the American system? You speak of Germany here, but Scandinavian countries have systems that benefit students even more. The Netherlands used to have completely free universities. Scandinavian universities are some of the best universities there are. Sweden is at the top when it comes to technology being invented. The Dutch technicL universities are at the top of the world. The TU Delft and TU Eindgoven are regarded among the most succesful technological universities in the world. There are no sources that confirmx that the quality of universities correlates with where the universities gets their money.
	Ask GinyuTokusentai


+ Havoc_Wreaker	Oct 4 2014, 09:49 AM Post #14
Popcorn Posts: 9,904 Group: Elite Member Member #5,870 Joined: March 19, 2011 Gender Other Country Canada	well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8pjd1QEA0c yeah when i was in school, i was paying roughly 7500$-8000 a year this stuff is too damn expensive



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