Feminism vs. Humanism

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Feminism vs. Humanism
Tweet Topic Started: Sep 23 2014, 04:56 PM (2,961 Views)
* Yu Narukami	Sep 23 2014, 09:25 PM Post #16
Izanagi! Posts: 12,330 Group: Retired Staff Member #6,446 Joined: July 3, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country None	ObsessiveFanGirl Sep 23 2014, 09:24 PM Wow. This topic has really blown up. But I totally agree with this post by Strawberry: Quote: That "baggage" also contains an entire historical movement full of bravery and audacity by all the people who fought the cause and got us to where we are today in terms of equality. It encompasses a movement much bigger than us. Such movement cannot be erased by a mere ignorant and cowardly interpretation of the word. It's ridiculous. It's about reeducating people and eradicating the prejudice, rather than trying to wash away the core of the movement, which originated from women being blatantly treated as second class citizens and human beings. That's what young stars like Emma Watson are doing and what should continue to be done -- demystify the unfair negative connotation associated with the word instead of feeding it by acting like the name is the problem. And no, re-educating is not difficult. A simple class on basic feminist theory in high school would suffice. Feminism is never even touched on in high school unless students are reading something like A Doll's House. So, we just ignore everyone who's finished high school?



~~Doggo Champion 2k17~~	Sep 23 2014, 09:30 PM Post #17
Posts: 7,931 Group: GTFO Member #6,380 Joined: June 20, 2011 Country United States Favourite Anime here comes What Browser do you use? o shit waddup! Favourite Manga dat boi	I'm talking about the restructuring of society if we wanted to fit feminism into the curriculum. Like Strawberry said, there is absolutely no point to "changing the name." That would accomplish nothing. Feminism is feminism. It's a movement loaded with history, and it's a movement that I and plenty of others fully support. It seems to me that only people who are uneducated or misinformed on the matter choose to disregard it.



Strawberry	Sep 23 2014, 09:32 PM Post #18
Chiaroscuro ♥ Posts: 17,000 Group: Rock Princess Member #1,750 Joined: September 24, 2006	@Drew I can understand that, but most political movements have been radical, or at the very least seen phases of radicalism at some point to propel their agenda forward. Just like you had society penetrating a negative connotation to the word feminism in our culture, you can have it doing the opposite. As much as I hate to say this, sexism has been very convenient for too long. It was convenient to have a movement fighting for equality of the sexes seen as a bunch of hysterical, men hating, lesbian women acting crazy to seek attention. It was convenient to demean the movement and gradually turning it into a joke because it meant holding onto a platform that perpetuated sexism in a very sneaky way that allowed men to remain more powerful and dignified than women while also making women feel guilty for wanting equality and expressing that desire vocally in society. People still having a problem with the word feminism is still a vestige of that very intricate strategy of diminishing the movement. Erasing the word is giving into that. It's not the solution, it's THE problem. Anyway, getting tired of this topic for now. I may get back to it later. For now I'll agree to disagree with you. Edited by Strawberry, Sep 23 2014, 09:33 PM.
	♪ ♥ ♫ Across The Universe


* Yu Narukami	Sep 23 2014, 09:37 PM Post #19
Izanagi! Posts: 12,330 Group: Retired Staff Member #6,446 Joined: July 3, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country None	ObsessiveFanGirl Sep 23 2014, 09:30 PM I'm talking about the restructuring of society if we wanted to fit feminism into the curriculum. Like Strawberry said, there is absolutely no point to "changing the name." That would accomplish nothing. Feminism is feminism. It's a movement loaded with history, and it's a movement that I and plenty of others fully support. It seems to me that only people who are uneducated or misinformed on the matter choose to disregard it. Come on now, that's not very fair. Given the current situation with those radicals, imagine how hard it must be for a lot of people to say they're a strong supporter of Feminism. "Feminism? But you're a guy. You fairy." "Feminism? Like those crazy people on the internet?" "They're radicals, they're not feminists" is a legitimate and accurate statement, but it sounds like such a cop-out excuse. I mean, I'd just rather a movement that argues for the same thing but isn't held back by all these issues. If re-educating somebody will transform them into a supporter of Feminism, then it's obvious that the perceived issues around feminism are what's stopping them, not the ideas and principles themselves. Though, I guess I'm just ignorant to the importance of the terminology. @Strawberry - I'd rather give into that and make sure that the principles of Feminism are presented in a more appealing way so that they get the attention that they deserve, but ah well. Edited by Yu Narukami, Sep 23 2014, 09:39 PM.



~~Doggo Champion 2k17~~	Sep 23 2014, 09:41 PM Post #20
Posts: 7,931 Group: GTFO Member #6,380 Joined: June 20, 2011 Country United States Favourite Anime here comes What Browser do you use? o shit waddup! Favourite Manga dat boi	What I'm basically trying to say is that the people who want to change the terminology are the people who happen to be uneducated or misinformed on the matter, so why should we cater to those people? Also, what term would we use? Like I said, feminism is feminism, and if you don't understand that term, you can never possibly translate it to something else. Humanism is not the same term, and it is not a movement, so that obviously doesn't work.



* Yu Narukami	Sep 23 2014, 09:46 PM Post #21
Izanagi! Posts: 12,330 Group: Retired Staff Member #6,446 Joined: July 3, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country None	How about egalitarianism? Or, heck, a new term? I don't pretend to be informed about the situation at all, but I mean, just think of it like this; Somebody won't try Pepsi because of some negative advertising. The company rebrands Pepsi as 'Cool Cola' The person decides to try it. They're not put off because there wasn't any negative advertising. If people are hugely misinformed about the feminist movement and movements as a whole, they're not going to know that something new is just another movement under a new title. Edited by Yu Narukami, Sep 23 2014, 09:46 PM.



~~Doggo Champion 2k17~~	Sep 23 2014, 09:48 PM Post #22
Posts: 7,931 Group: GTFO Member #6,380 Joined: June 20, 2011 Country United States Favourite Anime here comes What Browser do you use? o shit waddup! Favourite Manga dat boi	I just fail to see the point, and to me it undermines what the feminist movement has already achieved and been struggling with for decades (heck, even centuries).



* Yu Narukami	Sep 23 2014, 09:52 PM Post #23
Izanagi! Posts: 12,330 Group: Retired Staff Member #6,446 Joined: July 3, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country None	ObsessiveFanGirl Sep 23 2014, 09:48 PM I just fail to see the point, and to me it undermines what the feminist movement has already achieved and been struggling with for decades (heck, even centuries). It's not the content that's the problem, it's external factors. The content being the arguments/principles and the external factors being radicals/perceived ideas. It'd just be much easier overall to start a movement with a different name, as it wouldn't have those external factors holding it back. Edit : It's not like forming a new movement would somehow take away a woman's right to vote or anything that's been achieved by the feminism movement in the past. Edited by Yu Narukami, Sep 23 2014, 09:53 PM.



Mihawk	Sep 23 2014, 09:57 PM Post #24
Posts: 4,804 Group: Prodigy Member #4,783 Joined: March 2, 2010 Gender Not Specified	Strawberry @wolffang, terminology is actually incredibly important. Neutralizing the core of the term that refers to the female gender is in my opinion continuing to neutralize the gender issue (which is what feminism is all about) Err... neutralization is a step forward, not backward. It'll encompass all groups that are forming against feminism such as "men's rights" which shouldn't exist on their own. Strawberry and eradicating the historical power behind the name. The new generation doesn't really equate modern feminism with the history behind the name anymore. It's more or less being eradicated already. Strawberry It's ridiculous, it's wrong and it is NOT where the problem in gender inequality lies like I've been pointing out again and again. That goes both ways though, since just insisting on the word feminism and not trying to bring as many people as possible under gender equality would be working against gender equality too. Focusing on the principles is more important IMO.



Strawberry	Sep 23 2014, 10:03 PM Post #25
Chiaroscuro ♥ Posts: 17,000 Group: Rock Princess Member #1,750 Joined: September 24, 2006	Guys. Focusing on the principles while also keeping intact the integrity of the movement is not an illusion. It's a real cause. The cultural construction that ditacted feminism wasn't meant to be seen positively can and IS currently being reserved. It will take time, but it will also honor the people who gave me the right to vote and participate in society. I understand how that doesn't mean a rats a*** to you since you were never a prevalent target, but trust me, it's not a trivial thing. Coca Cola all the way.
	♪ ♥ ♫ Across The Universe


* Yu Narukami	Sep 23 2014, 10:10 PM Post #26
Izanagi! Posts: 12,330 Group: Retired Staff Member #6,446 Joined: July 3, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country None	It's not that I 'don't give a rat's ***', it's just that creating a new movement wouldn't be disrespecting those who fought for feminism in the past. It's not like it would suddenly wipe the history of feminist movement from existence, it'd be a kind if 'spiritual successor' to the movement.



~~Doggo Champion 2k17~~	Sep 23 2014, 10:15 PM Post #27
Posts: 7,931 Group: GTFO Member #6,380 Joined: June 20, 2011 Country United States Favourite Anime here comes What Browser do you use? o shit waddup! Favourite Manga dat boi	I still fail to see the point.



Mihawk	Sep 23 2014, 10:16 PM Post #28
Posts: 4,804 Group: Prodigy Member #4,783 Joined: March 2, 2010 Gender Not Specified	Why would changing a name make it lose its integrity? How will changing the name make the feminists who worked for your right make them lose their honor? And how did the argument against renaming feminism lead to you being a victim? I can see the argument for keeping the name intact, it's just not good one when you compare loss vs potential gain.



* Yu Narukami	Sep 23 2014, 10:16 PM Post #29
Izanagi! Posts: 12,330 Group: Retired Staff Member #6,446 Joined: July 3, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country None	ObsessiveFanGirl Sep 23 2014, 10:15 PM I still fail to see the point. I've made myself pretty clear at this point, so I don't see the benefit of posting in circles again.



~~Doggo Champion 2k17~~	Sep 23 2014, 10:18 PM Post #30
Posts: 7,931 Group: GTFO Member #6,380 Joined: June 20, 2011 Country United States Favourite Anime here comes What Browser do you use? o shit waddup! Favourite Manga dat boi	Naked Snake Sep 23 2014, 10:16 PM ObsessiveFanGirl Sep 23 2014, 10:15 PM I still fail to see the point. I've made myself pretty clear at this point, so I don't see the benefit of posting in circles again. Strawberry and I have argued the opposing view pretty well, so I don't see why you keep saying we need to change the name. There is no point.



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