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| Feminism vs. Humanism | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 23 2014, 04:56 PM (2,957 Views) | |
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Sep 23 2014, 04:56 PM Post #1 |
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I'm sitting in the parking lot waiting for my next class and figured I would make a topic. It seems that in every feminism-based topic on this forum in the past, people have been quick to say things like "oh, I'm not a feminist. I'd rather be a humanist." Well, this topic will be addressing that, and I'll try to explain why I take issue with that statement. First, if you have the time, take a look at this article. While I don't agree with everything the author says, it's a pretty good basis for my own argument: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/camelswithhammers/2014/07/why-do-we-need-feminism-shouldnt-we-just-be-humanists-and-equalists/ Basically, feminism is about activism (not just for women, but for other minorities as well) whereas humanism is just a mode of thinking. You've never seen anyone do something progressive in the name of humanism, have you? Feminism has a deep history of progressive thought and activism, whereas humanism at one point excluded women and minorities completely. Humanism for many decades stood for equality between all men, specially white men. I'll have to add more to this argument later since I'm typing this on my phone, but feel free to share your thoughts until then. (I'll probably post more articles as well.) Also, just a note: if I see any posts directly bashing feminism or women, I'll automatically report it. I get pretty heated when that happens, and I'm more interested in sharing ideas and debate rather than arguing. |
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| Mihawk | Sep 23 2014, 05:41 PM Post #2 |
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Never seen anyone bash feminism on this forum tbh. Back on topic I think the reason why people don't like feminism is because of what modern feminists have redefined the terminology to not have anything to do with its original usage. Going by dictionary definition it's still very relevant, just the fact that some people have changed their personal terminology for it. I like the idea of going for humanist instead of feminist based on that. Based on what I've seen the new generation doesn't think of suffrage or equality when someone mentions feminism. Asking a high school kid what he thought of feminism it was something along the lines of crazy people on tumblr. I had to remind him about earlier suffrage; and even then he said he didn't equate that with the term feminism. |
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| * Yu Narukami | Sep 23 2014, 05:45 PM Post #3 |
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Izanagi!
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I prefer an Egalitarian approach. While the principles of Feminism are things that I agree with, the 'Fem' part of the name, as well as the history of focusing on just Women's' rights, give the impression that that's still the case, which puts a lot of people off. |
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| Strawberry | Sep 23 2014, 05:59 PM Post #4 |
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Chiaroscuro ♥
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It irks me when people say they consider themselves humanists instead of feminists, because the two movements are remarkably different and not interchangeable, but rather complementary. It's not a matter of being either a feminist or a humanist, but being both (or neither) within their respective spectrums of thought and action. On this topic I'd love to share with you all a video by one of my favorite youtubers ever, Laci Green (a lot of you may be familiar with her content, I believe). I echo everything in this video, from the statements to the sentiment it conveys, and I urge you to give it a watch. @Drew - She also addresses the argument that the fact that the word is allusive to women may be seen as off putting -- which, with all due respect, I think is completely bogus and greatly pretentious to even be considered an argument since we have broad terms like "mankind" be part of our history with little to no reluctance or discomfort behind them. Edited by Strawberry, Sep 23 2014, 07:40 PM.
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| + Ginyu | Sep 23 2014, 07:31 PM Post #5 |
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Leve Feyenoord 1!
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The only reason people bash feminism is because of lack of education. The kind of people who hang out on 9gag and think feminism means women are better than men and all men are evil. While those do indeed exist they are not real feminists but what I like to refer to as 'pseudo-feminists.' They think they're feminists, but they're really not. Feminism stands for equality, and even though I'm a man, I'd say I'm a feminist because I stand for gender equality as well. And that means equal rights for men and women in society but it also means getting rid of many double standards men suffer from during convictions for crime for example. Whenever people are talking ill of feminism it's just ignorant people making fun of fake feminists. |
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| * Yu Narukami | Sep 23 2014, 07:54 PM Post #6 |
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Izanagi!
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Pushing for a movement that holds all the principles of Feminism, but isn't Feminism, would be the easiest thing to do at this point. People criticising Feminism as a whole for these 'New wave Feminists' is ignorant and incorrect, yes, but it's just a fact that we have to deal with. What sounds easier to you; Teaching each ignorant person the fine details of Feminism and dispelling the confusion Or Introducing a new movement that is fundamentally the same, but without the 'baggage' ( regardless of whether there is, in actuality, any)? Edited by Yu Narukami, Sep 23 2014, 08:04 PM.
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| Mihawk | Sep 23 2014, 07:59 PM Post #7 |
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Yeah I think it's like when Christians say that X Christians aren't being real Christians since the Bible clearly condemns them. For every person you want to convince of Christianity, you have to realize that they aren't going to look at the Bible, they're gonna look at Christians. In my opinion feminism has become so diluted by "radical feminists", there's no point of continuing under that banner anymore. Might as well pick a new name and use it for the same cause. |
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| Strawberry | Sep 23 2014, 08:08 PM Post #8 |
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Chiaroscuro ♥
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That "baggage" also contains an entire historical movement full of bravery and audacity by all the people who fought the cause and got us to where we are today in terms of equality. It encompasses a movement much bigger than us. Such movement cannot be erased by a mere ignorant and cowardly interpretation of the word. It's ridiculous. It's about reeducating people and eradicating the prejudice, rather than trying to wash away the core of the movement, which originated from women being blatantly treated as second class citizens and human beings. That's what young stars like Emma Watson are doing and what should continue to be done -- demystify the unfair negative connotation associated with the word instead of feeding it by acting like the name is the problem. |
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| * Yu Narukami | Sep 23 2014, 08:15 PM Post #9 |
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Izanagi!
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I'm not denying the bravery of the people who pushed the movement forward in the past, I'm just saying that it's more practical to present the current principles of true feminism under a different name. Re-educating people is extremely difficult, especially considering how ignorant and stubborn people are today. You have to ask yourself, what's more important; Preserving the history of the movement or presenting the principles in a way that makes them more easily accepted? |
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| Mihawk | Sep 23 2014, 08:20 PM Post #10 |
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Is using the term feminism really that important though? Would changing terminology for the sake of unification actually lay waste to past struggles? The way I see it no one can take back courage and problems the first feminists went through. I'd say it's more important to keep their values intact rather than what they called themselves. I'm sure they agree with me. Forcing constancy of the terminology is a waste of time that could be better spent on the actual cause. |
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| Strawberry | Sep 23 2014, 08:52 PM Post #11 |
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Chiaroscuro ♥
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Re-educating people isn't easy, but it's achievable. And I see no need for the shortcut you suggest when other social issues have proved it is possible to work towards justice and equality by providing educated information while actively working against the spread of misinformation. Take the development over the last decade regarding sexual orientation as a prime example of what I just said. Think about how much we've progressed as a society on a nearly global scale (with exceptions, obviously) by submerging the media with educated arguments, perspectives and facts. Think about the amount of celebrities who became spokespersons for gay rights and helped turning the table culturally by actively taking away the negative meaning associated with the word (and subsequently the movement behind it). 10 years ago saying you were pro-gay was more than enough to be laughed at. Today saying you're NOT pro-gay is what's going to get a great number of people judging you. The cultural psyche has changed and it wasn't because people decided to change the name of the movement to Straighty Rights or anything stupid like that -- also important to point out the radicalism associated with the LGBT community didn't stop either -- it was because people were re-reducated on the matter through a conscious society effort. The same can be done for feminism and I sincerely believe the main reason why it didn't start earlier on the media was because people simply didn't give it enough visibility -- until now. @wolffang, terminology is actually incredibly important. Neutralizing the core of the term that refers to the female gender is in my opinion continuing to neutralize the gender issue (which is what feminism is all about) and eradicating the historical power behind the name. It's ridiculous, it's wrong and it is NOT where the problem in gender inequality lies like I've been pointing out again and again. |
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| * Yu Narukami | Sep 23 2014, 09:00 PM Post #12 |
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Izanagi!
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The whole 'straighty rights' thing is a total strawman. I never said to rename it 'Masculinism', which is on the other end of the spectrum. I'm merely saying that changing it would be the easiest way. Perhaps I'm a huge pessimist, but I don't think re-educating would work, at least to the extent that you're suggesting. Even though being pro-gay is becoming a lot more common, there are still many places that reject the notion and fight against it to their last breath. Introducing things under a new banner can encourage people to adopt a new perspective on the relevant issue. Also, I disagree with the terminology part. What's most important to me is what's being presented; the arguments and principles of an ideology/movement/view. The name of it is just something used for ease if reference. Edited by Yu Narukami, Sep 23 2014, 09:00 PM.
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| Strawberry | Sep 23 2014, 09:12 PM Post #13 |
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Chiaroscuro ♥
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I didn't say YOU specifically wanted to change anything about gay rights, or would ever ponder such thing. But imagine if people did fight to change the name of said movement to make it "easier" for the poor old straight majority to cope with/understand the fact sexuality isn't black and white? Again, terminology isn't banal and anthropology, sociology and history prove it. Wanting a movement pretty much exactly like feminism in content, just with a different name to make things "easier" to put forth is to me just wanting to eradicate female out of the equation. It's disrespectful to the movement and all the great things it has accomplished, and it's simply unnecessary. You don't see anybody wanting to change the words MANkind or huMANity. You also don't see anybody having a problem with those words. Yet FEMinism is not the same. "Good ideals, but bad name!!!" Now you do the math. |
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| * Yu Narukami | Sep 23 2014, 09:18 PM Post #14 |
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Izanagi!
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For the most part, it's not specifically the female part of the term that's the issue. The term itself is just plagued by 'radicals' falsely donning the title of feminist. Even if you try and re-educate people, as Itachi said earlier, people look to a certain group of people when they're making their judgements. It just so happens that this group of radicals are often seen as the face of Feminism, and people often don't want to spend any of their time correcting their views. |
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Sep 23 2014, 09:24 PM Post #15 |
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Wow. This topic has really blown up. But I totally agree with this post by Strawberry:
And no, re-educating is not difficult. A simple class on basic feminist theory in high school would suffice. Feminism is never even touched on in high school unless students are reading something like A Doll's House. |
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