Humans VS Freeza

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Humans VS Freeza
Tweet Topic Started: Sep 8 2014, 10:53 PM (3,452 Views)
Mihawk	Sep 10 2014, 03:19 AM Post #46
Posts: 4,804 Group: Prodigy Member #4,783 Joined: March 2, 2010 Gender Not Specified	POOHEAD189 Sep 10 2014, 03:13 AM The only statement we have is Yamcha speaking to Krillin's daughter. Exactly. There's no statements otherwise. There's only fan speculation and fan interpretations that can lead to other conclusions. Manga Statement > Interview Statements > Fan interpretations The evidence is heavily for one side.



POOHEAD189	Sep 10 2014, 03:30 AM Post #47
Posts: 3,186 Group: Member Member #4,559 Joined: October 30, 2009 Favourite Anime Dragonball/Z Favourite Manga Dragonball	I think the manga agrees with me from how the characters treat them and their feats. But you can go with what I perceive is vague and speculative if you wish. Edited by POOHEAD189, Sep 10 2014, 03:31 AM.
	Tha gaol agam ort. <3


Mihawk	Sep 10 2014, 03:35 AM Post #48
Posts: 4,804 Group: Prodigy Member #4,783 Joined: March 2, 2010 Gender Not Specified	Well no offense, but you just sound stubborn now by calling a solid statement in the manga corroborated by an author statement as vague and speculative while using your interpretations of events as being "manga agreeing" with you. Sorry don't take it in the wrong way.



POOHEAD189	Sep 10 2014, 03:49 AM Post #49
Posts: 3,186 Group: Member Member #4,559 Joined: October 30, 2009 Favourite Anime Dragonball/Z Favourite Manga Dragonball	Well that's why it boils down to opinion. I just think the characters treat Tien throughout the Cell and Buu saga as much more capable than Krillin. And you think Yamcha's statement must be true. It's not like I think my opinion must be fact and yours not. I just think it's more reliable to go with what happens than what is said. Edited by POOHEAD189, Sep 10 2014, 03:56 AM.
	Tha gaol agam ort. <3


+ Pyrus	Sep 10 2014, 04:05 AM Post #50
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	K-broom Kuririn is the strongest of the Earthlings, including Tenshinhan. The manga says so. Every supplemental source with an opinion to give says so. Toriyama himself says so. There's no protest to be made and no discussion to be had to the contrary. Only theorizing about "how" Kuririn became and remained the strongest Earthling. Personally, I think the Grand Elder of Namek's power-unlocking simply shot his strength so drastically far ahead of the other Earthlings, that even more than a decade later not even Tenshinhan the training addict had caught up. Also, Toriyama really should've made this more clear by putting it in a separate thought bubble (wait, he did), but Yamcha thought "among Earthlings" to himself...not Maron. It doesn't get any clearer than that. He specifically had Yamcha pander to Maron, then corrected himself in his own mind so as to not include Piccolo or the Saiyans, guys who were clearly superior to the regular cast.
	Spoiler: click to toggle


Kblo247	Sep 10 2014, 04:07 AM Post #51
Posts: 5,234 Group: Member Member #6,870 Joined: October 16, 2011	POOHEAD189 Sep 10 2014, 03:49 AM Well that's why it boils down to opinion. I just think the characters treat Tien throughout the Cell and Buu saga as much more capable than Krillin. And you think Yamcha's statement must be true. It's not like I think my opinion must be fact and yours not. I just think it's more reliable to go with what happens than what is said. Much more capable? Tien couldn't finish a saibaman, got his hand chopped off by Nappa, was told stay put when piccolo fought 17, shookin his boots watching piccolo and Vegeta, and then hid while everyone but Dende died. Krillin killed multiple saibaman, he actually dodged and hit Nappa, he traveled to Namek, got his potential unlocked, was sent off just like Gohan because Goku trusted him to get there in time with Yamchas life on the life, came up with the plan to actually go to Geros lab and kill cell, was trusted with the remore vs Bulma, and went to take on a ship full of Frieza or better tier guys. I mean the hell did Tien ever accomplish in Z itself fighting wise outside the Bojack movie that wasn't spamming tri beam?



+ Pyrus	Sep 10 2014, 04:12 AM Post #52
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	This whole debate was already had. We're just repeating the exact same things as last time. Just wait for it. The Troll Council is brewing up something special for its grand return.
	Spoiler: click to toggle


+ Yusuke	Sep 10 2014, 04:22 AM Post #53
Posts: 7,023 Group: Elite Member Member #9,876 Joined: August 11, 2013 Gender Male Country Canada	Well to be fair, there was never a statement for their being a massive gap between all the humans. Nonetheless, Yamcha's statement, AT's 2004 interview, and Krillin's BoG profile all point to the little bald man being the strongest Earthling. I personally don't like it but the author's word is final.
	Ask Yusuke


Kblo247	Sep 10 2014, 04:27 AM Post #54
Posts: 5,234 Group: Member Member #6,870 Joined: October 16, 2011	The topic at hand Yamcha - 8 Mil Tien - 12 mil Krillin - 20 mil I think they win the last two scenarios



Mike XL	Sep 10 2014, 04:32 AM Post #55
Posts: 1,181 Group: Member Member #8,239 Joined: September 4, 2012 Favourite Anime Dragonball, Dragonball Z, Gundam Seed, Death Note, Bleach, Yu Yu Hakusho	Kblo247 Sep 10 2014, 04:07 AM POOHEAD189 Sep 10 2014, 03:49 AM Well that's why it boils down to opinion. I just think the characters treat Tien throughout the Cell and Buu saga as much more capable than Krillin. And you think Yamcha's statement must be true. It's not like I think my opinion must be fact and yours not. I just think it's more reliable to go with what happens than what is said. Much more capable? Tien couldn't finish a saibaman, got his hand chopped off by Nappa, was told stay put when piccolo fought 17, shookin his boots watching piccolo and Vegeta, and then hid while everyone but Dende died. Krillin killed multiple saibaman, he actually dodged and hit Nappa, he traveled to Namek, got his potential unlocked, was sent off just like Gohan because Goku trusted him to get there in time with Yamchas life on the life, came up with the plan to actually go to Geros lab and kill cell, was trusted with the remore vs Bulma, and went to take on a ship full of Frieza or better tier guys. I mean the hell did Tien ever accomplish in Z itself fighting wise outside the Bojack movie that wasn't spamming tri beam? That's a biased view of it. Who said Tenshinhan couldn't beat that Saibiman anyway? He totally dominated him, Vegeta elected to kill him before anything else could come of it. By that logic, Sayian saga Krillen>Piccolo. Tenshinhan was the first guy Nappa targeted off the bat, and he was isolated with him. Krillen fought in a group setting, and didn't do much better, Nappa had him dead to rights with a blast that didn't even directly hit him and was going to finish him off until Piccolo saved him, if my memory is correct. Goku sending him off with Yamcha because he trusted him is kind of a weak line of reasoning. Anyone could have flown Yamcha back, why not the weakest guy there? If anything, he did it because he was closer to Krillen and didn't want to insult Tenshinhan, probably. Really, their feats in Z are more or less the same. Krillen had his moments vs Freeza, Ten had his Shin Kikoho vs Cell. Tenshinhan was more active post Freeza in terms of battle, fought vs the Androids, and his Kikohos vs Cell and Buu, and Krillen was more relevant in terms of story. In terms of power, statements seem to favor Krillen, but Yamchas statement left enough room for doubt, and Toriyamas statement of Krillen being the strongest came over a decade later, and with his memory, I can see why people would still favor Tenshinhan. Nevertheless, I think those two statements are enough for me to put Krillen over Ten slightly, even if their is some room for doubt. But, really, in terms of strength and feats, they're extremely close to each other.



+ Pyrus	Sep 10 2014, 04:32 AM Post #56
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	I'm going with something like this: Krillin - 10,000,000 Tenshinhan - 4,500,000 Yamcha - 3,300,000 Quote: In terms of power, statements seem to favor Krillen, but Yamchas statement left enough room for doubt, and Toriyamas statement of Krillen being the strongest came over a decade later, and with his memory, I can see why people would still favor Tenshinhan. Nevertheless, I think those two statements are enough for me to put Krillen over Ten slightly, even if their is some room for doubt. But, really, in terms of strength and feats, they're extremely close to each other. How so? It's pretty clear, isn't it? "Yeah, your dad's the strongest!...(thinking) I guess I shouldn't say that. He's nowhere near as strong as Piccolo, Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan...so I suppose just among us earthlings." Edited by Pyrus, Sep 10 2014, 04:35 AM.
	Spoiler: click to toggle


+ Clearin	Sep 10 2014, 04:52 AM Post #57
Posts: 12,580 Group: Elite Member Member #6,372 Joined: June 18, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country United Kingdom	POOHEAD189 Sep 10 2014, 02:52 AM Clearin Sep 9 2014, 08:43 PM If you don't take Toriyama's word for things then you're saying you don't take anything the manga says as canon considering every single bit of dialogue in the manga is Toriyama's word. That's completely beside the point. The story IS the story. I have a favorite Author, and in his books all things that have been written were canon. But he admitted that, his fans knew WAY more knowledge than him on his series and in fact anonymously went on a forum to ask them questions to better help with his next book. Toriyama has no business making claims on something he hardly paid attention to 20 years ago. And just maybe, if these interviews were from around the time he made the manga I'd be more apt to believe him. The story is the story written by the author on paper. Interviews are the story given by the author in words, or on paper if a written interview. It's all coming from the same brain of the same man, why does it matter how he expresses the story if it all comes from the same place, his own mind? Only the battle of Gods description was released 20 years after the manga ended, and Toriyama had recently reread the whole series for that movie anyway. There's a statement in the manga and a statement in an interview that happened much earlier, at least 10 years ago I think.



Kblo247	Sep 10 2014, 05:01 AM Post #58
Posts: 5,234 Group: Member Member #6,870 Joined: October 16, 2011	Goku sent Gohan to fish Yajirobe out but let Yamcha go in the city solo. There in lies a problem with the whole Tien stayed while Krillin took Yamcha thing. * least you didn't make the Tien went with piccolo to look for cell argument which ignores Kirllin came up with the plan to kill cell



Muyasuki	Sep 10 2014, 05:35 AM Post #59
Posts: 743 Group: Member Member #6,973 Joined: November 12, 2011	POOHEAD189 Sep 10 2014, 03:49 AM Well that's why it boils down to opinion. I just think the characters treat Tien throughout the Cell and Buu saga as much more capable than Krillin. And you think Yamcha's statement must be true. It's not like I think my opinion must be fact and yours not. I just think it's more reliable to go with what happens than what is said. You do realize that the things you use to support Tien being stronger is strictly based on your opinion but the things that you dismiss are actually based on fact? There ISN'T any point in the Cell or Buu saga in which Tien was treated as more capable by other characters. Not. One. Point. ESPECIALLY in the Buu saga. Yamcha makes his statement about Krillin being the strongest human in a thought...to himself. Here's a question: why would Yamcha lie to himself? Or why would Toriyama include that thought bubble of him thinking that to the scene if its not true? Yamcha's statement left NO room for doubt. The argument that AT's statements in interview came after the series was completed is true BUT it also true that he has also stated this in interviews WHILE the series was running. o Seriously, how is this Krillin vs Tien thing still a debate? If you really wanted to make a debate, it'd be about the gap; not the order. That'd be understandable Statements made within the series, during the making of the series, after the series was finished, AND within supplementary material all state Krillin is stronger. You can't argue against Word of God at this point. Not when the statements were also made WHILE THE SERIES was still being written and within the series itself. It comes off more like grasping at straws than it does actually making a point (even moreso if you need to remember things wrong to get them to work out in your favour). Seriously, when all the evidence within the series and outside of the series says the same thing... With that said, as far as the topic is concerned, the Humans need (4) and (5) to win this. With (5) being a huge stomp for each human individually).They CAN give him trouble with (3) though. At this point, I've got their floor clocking in at around: Krillin: 18 025 000 Tien: 15 450 000 Yamcha: 14 420 000 Edited by Muyasuki, Sep 10 2014, 06:04 AM.



sylentknyte	Sep 10 2014, 10:25 PM Post #60
Posts: 790 Group: Member Member #5,932 Joined: March 30, 2011	Kblo247 Sep 10 2014, 04:07 AM POOHEAD189 Sep 10 2014, 03:49 AM Well that's why it boils down to opinion. I just think the characters treat Tien throughout the Cell and Buu saga as much more capable than Krillin. And you think Yamcha's statement must be true. It's not like I think my opinion must be fact and yours not. I just think it's more reliable to go with what happens than what is said. Much more capable? Tien couldn't finish a saibaman, got his hand chopped off by Nappa, was told stay put when piccolo fought 17, shookin his boots watching piccolo and Vegeta, and then hid while everyone but Dende died. Krillin killed multiple saibaman, he actually dodged and hit Nappa, he traveled to Namek, got his potential unlocked, was sent off just like Gohan because Goku trusted him to get there in time with Yamchas life on the life, came up with the plan to actually go to Geros lab and kill cell, was trusted with the remore vs Bulma, and went to take on a ship full of Frieza or better tier guys. I mean the hell did Tien ever accomplish in Z itself fighting wise outside the Bojack movie that wasn't spamming tri beam? Tien's feats: Dragonball: - One of the only characters to defeat Goku. - Gets a strong victory over Cyborg Tao, who was a near-main villain at the time. - Was depended upon by Kami to help take out Piccolo Jr. Z: - Nearly deals a deadly blow to Nappa. - Kills a Siabamen. - Was depended upon by Goku and Piccolo to help fight the Androids while Krillen was told to take Yamcha away. - Pins down Semi-Perfect Cell - Probably the greatest feat of any human. - Dodges the worldwide genocide of Super Buu, and deflects a beam aimed to kill Hercule and Dende from freaking Gotenks-Buu. Tien was always given more respect than Krillen. Edited by sylentknyte, Sep 10 2014, 10:32 PM.



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