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Humans VS Freeza
Topic Started: Sep 8 2014, 10:53 PM (3,454 Views)
+ Pyrus Sep 9 2014, 12:54 AM Post #16
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sylentknyte
Sep 9 2014, 12:39 AM
Pyrus
Sep 9 2014, 12:37 AM
sylentknyte
Sep 9 2014, 12:36 AM
At this point I have them at:

Tien: 2.500,000
Krillen: 2,200,000
Yamcha: 1,200,000

So in Scenario 5 it's

Tien (50,000,000) , Krillen (40,000,000) , and Yamcha (24,000,000)

vs

Frieza (120,000,000)

I think they can take Frieza through teamwork. Tien traps him in a tri-beam, and Krillen destructo disks his a***.
Why ya got Tenshinny stronger than Krillin?
Because Tien has higher natural talent and more rigorous training. Besides the freak time in the Frieza saga, it's always been Goku > Tien > Krillen > Yamcha, and I don't think that changed.

You don't think Toriyama's word changes anything?
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SSJ Sep 9 2014, 01:00 AM Post #17
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Pyrus
Sep 9 2014, 12:54 AM
sylentknyte
Sep 9 2014, 12:39 AM
Pyrus
Sep 9 2014, 12:37 AM
sylentknyte
Sep 9 2014, 12:36 AM
At this point I have them at:

Tien: 2.500,000
Krillen: 2,200,000
Yamcha: 1,200,000

So in Scenario 5 it's

Tien (50,000,000) , Krillen (40,000,000) , and Yamcha (24,000,000)

vs

Frieza (120,000,000)

I think they can take Frieza through teamwork. Tien traps him in a tri-beam, and Krillen destructo disks his a***.
Why ya got Tenshinny stronger than Krillin?
Because Tien has higher natural talent and more rigorous training. Besides the freak time in the Frieza saga, it's always been Goku > Tien > Krillen > Yamcha, and I don't think that changed.

You don't think Toriyama's word changes anything?
I'm on your side, but that statement doesn't need to be put in place in the Cell Arc. Perhaps Tenshinhan got weaker after the Cell Games and Krillin surpassed him then. We never saw the bald b*** ever again anyway.
Edited by SSJ, Sep 9 2014, 01:00 AM.
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sylentknyte Sep 9 2014, 01:00 AM Post #18
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 I know it's kinda sacrilege to say this, but I really don't take Toriyama's word for things. Like Goku's BoDB powerlevel being 10. While his words are technically canon, the man does not care about stuff like powerlevels and puts less thought into it than fans.
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Professor Gohan Sep 9 2014, 01:02 AM Post #19
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Wasn't that same statement said again after the series was over, though?

Twice before the series ended.
Once after the series ended.

Interviews and guidebooks.
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+ Pyrus Sep 9 2014, 01:09 AM Post #20
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sylentknyte
Sep 9 2014, 01:00 AM
I know it's kinda sacrilege to say this, but I really don't take Toriyama's word for things. Like Goku's BoDB powerlevel being 10. While his words are technically canon, the man does not care about stuff like powerlevels and puts less thought into it than fans.
That power level was from the Daizenshuu, and it's doubtful Toriyama had a part in making up those levels. A character being stronger than another doesn't have much to do with specific power levels, especially two characters who weren't all that relevant.

This may be some heavy reading, but it's just about everything to do with the topic rolled into one post: http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=9042216&t=8498472

The whole thread tackles the issue, but whatever.

@SSJ7: You're right.
Edited by Pyrus, Sep 9 2014, 01:10 AM.
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+ Clearin Sep 9 2014, 01:53 AM Post #21
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 Trying to make power levels for the original Dragon Ball doesn't really work, even by nerfing Goku to 10 at the start of the series, when he's obviously much stronger than just double a regular human, by the time you get to Old Piccolo beating Goku with less than half his power things just seem impossible to fit.
Edited by Clearin, Sep 9 2014, 01:53 AM.
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POOHEAD189 Sep 9 2014, 02:19 AM Post #22
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 The fact that Android 20 thought that Yamcha would give them a fair amount of energy shows the humans aren't pushovers. In DB, you need to only be 3/4ths of a person's strength to get your a*** handed to you. And if Yamcha was 2 million, Gero would NOT give 2 s***s. I think someone 10-20% of Android 20's power would be considered a "nice" gain. And I am under the impression the Androids are around Freiza, if not a bit stronger. Scenario 1 they probably lose, but the rest of the scenarios I have them winning. 5th round isn't even funny.
Tha gaol agam ort. <3
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Mike XL Sep 9 2014, 03:06 AM Post #23
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 I have Krillen and Tenshinhan around 60% or so of Freeza in the Buu arch, so they stomp in scenario 2 and up, and have a very small punchers chance in scenario 1.
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Total Warrior Sep 9 2014, 10:47 AM Post #24
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 I have tenshinhan at 20 000 000, krillin at 18 000 000 and yamcha at 10 000 000. So, they win in scenario 3 and up
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+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans Sep 9 2014, 01:51 PM Post #25
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魔王子
sylentknyte
Sep 9 2014, 12:39 AM
Pyrus
Sep 9 2014, 12:37 AM
sylentknyte
Sep 9 2014, 12:36 AM
At this point I have them at:

Tien: 2.500,000
Krillen: 2,200,000
Yamcha: 1,200,000

So in Scenario 5 it's

Tien (50,000,000) , Krillen (40,000,000) , and Yamcha (24,000,000)

vs

Frieza (120,000,000)

I think they can take Frieza through teamwork. Tien traps him in a tri-beam, and Krillen destructo disks his a***.
Why ya got Tenshinny stronger than Krillin?
Because Tien has higher natural talent and more rigorous training. Besides the freak time in the Frieza saga, it's always been Goku > Tien > Krillen > Yamcha, and I don't think that changed.

Toriyama himself disagrees with you.
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Battle Power Guide
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+ Emmeth Sep 9 2014, 04:40 PM Post #26
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I ♥ Yoeri

 I have these numbers for the humans:

Krillin: 12,000,000
Tenshinhan: 10,000,000
Yamcha: 8,000,000

They win in scenario 5.
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POOHEAD189 Sep 9 2014, 07:37 PM Post #27
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ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Sep 9 2014, 01:51 PM
sylentknyte
Sep 9 2014, 12:39 AM
Pyrus
Sep 9 2014, 12:37 AM
sylentknyte
Sep 9 2014, 12:36 AM
At this point I have them at:

Tien: 2.500,000
Krillen: 2,200,000
Yamcha: 1,200,000

So in Scenario 5 it's

Tien (50,000,000) , Krillen (40,000,000) , and Yamcha (24,000,000)

vs

Frieza (120,000,000)

I think they can take Frieza through teamwork. Tien traps him in a tri-beam, and Krillen destructo disks his a***.
Why ya got Tenshinny stronger than Krillin?
Because Tien has higher natural talent and more rigorous training. Besides the freak time in the Frieza saga, it's always been Goku > Tien > Krillen > Yamcha, and I don't think that changed.

Toriyama himself disagrees with you.
And if Toriyama had proven himself to be capable of remembering simple things in interviews in the past, we might believe him. I love AT but he doesn't pay much attention to his own series.
Edited by POOHEAD189, Sep 9 2014, 07:38 PM.
Tha gaol agam ort. <3
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+ Clearin Sep 9 2014, 08:43 PM Post #28
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 If you don't take Toriyama's word for things then you're saying you don't take anything the manga says as canon considering every single bit of dialogue in the manga is Toriyama's word.
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+ Pyrus Sep 9 2014, 09:36 PM Post #29
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Quote:
 
I myself tend to think that AT Interviews are...questionable at best.

Pyrus
 
They would still outweigh fan opinion unless a direct contradiction was brought up, like Babidi clearly not being a doppleganger of Bibidi. In this case, there is no direct contradiction. There is no statement saying Tenshinhan is the strongest, nor him outperforming Krillin at any point post-Saiyan battle.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WordOfGod
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeathOfTheAuthor
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem-tu-quoque.html
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8441123/1/
Edited by Pyrus, Sep 9 2014, 09:38 PM.
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DSTREET45 Sep 9 2014, 10:20 PM Post #30
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sylentknyte
Sep 9 2014, 12:39 AM
Because Tien has higher natural talent and more rigorous training. Besides the freak time in the Frieza saga, it's always been Goku > Tien > Krillen > Yamcha, and I don't think that changed.

Proof for any of this in Z?

Not to mention that Krillin has more battle experience than Tien which could make up for the speculated "more rigorous training"
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