Emmeth

Aug 30 2014, 03:01 PM

Pyrus

Aug 30 2014, 02:58 PM

If you're dismissing her fear, then what's your hard sell on arguing the boys as Super Saiyans surpass her?

That they resorted to a ki blast to end it off.

Pyrus

Aug 30 2014, 03:04 PM

Emmeth

Aug 30 2014, 03:01 PM

Pyrus

Aug 30 2014, 02:58 PM

If you're dismissing her fear, then what's your hard sell on arguing the boys as Super Saiyans surpass her?

That they resorted to a ki blast to end it off.

I'm spinning in circles here. Are you or are you not arguing that she's inferior to them as Super Saiyans? This post makes it seem like you aren't with the whole "resorted to" thing.

TheACE

Aug 30 2014, 03:01 PM

Urameshi

Aug 30 2014, 02:49 PM

I don't even understand why this is even a debate.

Daiz Entry + The fight itself shows that the Kids were either evenly matched, had a slight advantage, or had a slight disadvantage. Even going with the last option, the Kids wouldn't be that far removed from 18.

This is a debate because source material > data books. And since their power is non-numerical and open to interpretation, we can do that. That being said Yusuke, I know that the costume isn't easy to fight in, but I refuse to believe that pair of bed sheets hinder these Super Powered planet busters so hard that it makes an actual difference. It's like making Bruce Lee fight in skinny jeans. Yeah they aren't easy to kick in, but if it's that big a deal then Bruce Lee isn't the badass that Bruce Lee portrays himself to be. Super powers, unless you are kryptonian, are not dependent on outerwear. If they were, the Z Fighters would be naked all of the time. So no, that's not gonna fly.

Subject of board: Yakon vs the Androids. Just on attack properties I still give the twins a win if they discover the same weakness Goku did. Overload Yakkon's big green dub, err, big green froggy butt.

Urameshi

Aug 30 2014, 03:33 PM

TheACE

Aug 30 2014, 03:01 PM

Urameshi

Aug 30 2014, 02:49 PM

I don't even understand why this is even a debate.

Daiz Entry + The fight itself shows that the Kids were either evenly matched, had a slight advantage, or had a slight disadvantage. Even going with the last option, the Kids wouldn't be that far removed from 18.

This is a debate because source material > data books. And since their power is non-numerical and open to interpretation, we can do that. That being said Yusuke, I know that the costume isn't easy to fight in, but I refuse to believe that pair of bed sheets hinder these Super Powered planet busters so hard that it makes an actual difference. It's like making Bruce Lee fight in skinny jeans. Yeah they aren't easy to kick in, but if it's that big a deal then Bruce Lee isn't the badass that Bruce Lee portrays himself to be. Super powers, unless you are kryptonian, are not dependent on outerwear. If they were, the Z Fighters would be naked all of the time. So no, that's not gonna fly.

Subject of board: Yakon vs the Androids. Just on attack properties I still give the twins a win if they discover the same weakness Goku did. Overload Yakkon's big green dub, err, big green froggy butt.

And the source material implies nothing that would contradict it. In cases like these, we roll with what's given to us in the Data Book.

The only thing wrong with your Bruce Lee analogy is that it's actually quite literally stated that the Kids were having troubles in their costume and couldn't fight properly. Like I said before, if you pit two evenly matched fighters against each other and handicap one of them, common sense will tell you that the one without the handicap will have the advantage in the fight. It's not very complicated.

TheACE

Aug 30 2014, 03:41 PM

Urameshi

Aug 30 2014, 03:33 PM

TheACE

Aug 30 2014, 03:01 PM

Urameshi

Aug 30 2014, 02:49 PM

I don't even understand why this is even a debate.

Daiz Entry + The fight itself shows that the Kids were either evenly matched, had a slight advantage, or had a slight disadvantage. Even going with the last option, the Kids wouldn't be that far removed from 18.

This is a debate because source material > data books. And since their power is non-numerical and open to interpretation, we can do that. That being said Yusuke, I know that the costume isn't easy to fight in, but I refuse to believe that pair of bed sheets hinder these Super Powered planet busters so hard that it makes an actual difference. It's like making Bruce Lee fight in skinny jeans. Yeah they aren't easy to kick in, but if it's that big a deal then Bruce Lee isn't the badass that Bruce Lee portrays himself to be. Super powers, unless you are kryptonian, are not dependent on outerwear. If they were, the Z Fighters would be naked all of the time. So no, that's not gonna fly.

Subject of board: Yakon vs the Androids. Just on attack properties I still give the twins a win if they discover the same weakness Goku did. Overload Yakkon's big green dub, err, big green froggy butt.

And the source material implies nothing that would contradict it. In cases like these, we roll with what's given to us in the Data Book.

The only thing wrong with your Bruce Lee analogy is that it's actually quite literally stated that the Kids were having troubles in their costume and couldn't fight properly. Like I said before, if you pit two evenly matched fighters against each other and handicap one of them, common sense will tell you that the one without the handicap will have the advantage in the fight. It's not very complicated.

There specifically yes. Here's the big plot hole. Are the boys in their human for stronger than Frieza? Or around Frieza. According to "Yo Son Goku" they're about as tough as Frieza in base. Which is cool, but Android 18 whipped a radically Superior to Frieza Super Saiyan Vegeta by beating him over the head with Super Saiyan Future Trunks, who perma-killed Frieza in two minutes without breaking a sweat. When you can knock the Super out of a Saiyan by hitting him with another Saiyan, you're damn tough! And you're putting it to me that these grade schoolers with a bed sheet are as strong as this nuclear powered android hottie killing machine." With an infinite energy supply to boot. Unless rye transform, I'm gonna say no.

Urameshi

Aug 30 2014, 03:48 PM

TheACE

Aug 30 2014, 03:41 PM

Urameshi

Aug 30 2014, 03:33 PM

TheACE

Aug 30 2014, 03:01 PM

Urameshi

Aug 30 2014, 02:49 PM

I don't even understand why this is even a debate.

Daiz Entry + The fight itself shows that the Kids were either evenly matched, had a slight advantage, or had a slight disadvantage. Even going with the last option, the Kids wouldn't be that far removed from 18.

This is a debate because source material > data books. And since their power is non-numerical and open to interpretation, we can do that. That being said Yusuke, I know that the costume isn't easy to fight in, but I refuse to believe that pair of bed sheets hinder these Super Powered planet busters so hard that it makes an actual difference. It's like making Bruce Lee fight in skinny jeans. Yeah they aren't easy to kick in, but if it's that big a deal then Bruce Lee isn't the badass that Bruce Lee portrays himself to be. Super powers, unless you are kryptonian, are not dependent on outerwear. If they were, the Z Fighters would be naked all of the time. So no, that's not gonna fly.

Subject of board: Yakon vs the Androids. Just on attack properties I still give the twins a win if they discover the same weakness Goku did. Overload Yakkon's big green dub, err, big green froggy butt.

And the source material implies nothing that would contradict it. In cases like these, we roll with what's given to us in the Data Book.

The only thing wrong with your Bruce Lee analogy is that it's actually quite literally stated that the Kids were having troubles in their costume and couldn't fight properly. Like I said before, if you pit two evenly matched fighters against each other and handicap one of them, common sense will tell you that the one without the handicap will have the advantage in the fight. It's not very complicated.

There specifically yes. Here's the big plot hole. Are the boys in their human for stronger than Frieza? Or around Frieza. According to "Yo Son Goku" they're about as tough as Frieza in base. Which is cool, but Android 18 whipped a radically Superior to Frieza Super Saiyan Vegeta by beating him over the head with Super Saiyan Future Trunks, who perma-killed Frieza in two minutes without breaking a sweat. When you can knock the Super out of a Saiyan by hitting him with another Saiyan, you're damn tough! And you're putting it to me that these grade schoolers with a bed sheet are as strong as this nuclear powered android hottie killing machine." With an infinite energy supply to boot. Unless rye transform, I'm gonna say no.

And? Clearly, we go by the Manga instead of some next special that came out years and years after.

Base Kids being on the same level as #18 is supported by the Daiz and not contradicted by the Manga. Arguing against this requires a lot of excuse making like 18 was suppressed or other stuff and usually, this is an argument from the Freeza > Base Saiyans club to suit their ever so beloved chain.

My 2 cents.

Hurry My Curry

Aug 30 2014, 04:41 PM

Is Lapis and Lazuli another word for the Androids?

Pyrus

Aug 30 2014, 05:19 PM

Pokemon names, in other words.

As for the 2008 Jump Special, I prefer to go by the manga version in which Trunks and Goten put the beating on Abo and Cado from the start instead of being rusty twits in the animated version who, by the way, still managed to kick the two antagonist's asses once they remembered, essentially, how to fight again.