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Yakon vs No. 17 and No. 18
Topic Started: Aug 29 2014, 05:22 AM (5,181 Views)
+ Clearin Aug 30 2014, 11:19 AM Post #31
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POOHEAD189
Aug 30 2014, 08:15 AM
xGOKUdaFALLENx
Aug 29 2014, 07:29 PM
Are we forgetting that Piccolo's performance plays a part in the Artificial Human's power?

Besides, didn't Lazuli fight both Goten and Trunks as SSJs? With Lapis even stronger to rival Piccolo, who I think is just a tiny bit below base Saiyans, I can see Lapis and Lazuli winning. Plus, they can fire a barrage of Ki blasts so Yakon's dumb tail will just poof.

Base Adult Saiyans >~ Yakon >~ Piccolo = Lapis > / > SSJ Goten and Trunks = Lazuli > Base Kids
Who's Lazuli? Please don't tell me you're using those names Toriyama mentioned for the Androids (i'm sorry. it's just lolz to me)

Also, Goku being stronger than 18 doesn't mean too much, since 17 is stronger as well and 18 isn't that far behind Goku. I think both can beat Yakon, but individually Yakon would probably win.

Also, the whole 18's reaction to Trunks ki attack...
1, she had no idea that Mighty Mask could do Ki attacks.
And 2, Toriyama was clearly making Android 18 more personable and less 'mysterious' than when she fought Vegeta here. He wanted to make her more like a main cast member than a killer android so of course she'll act a bit more surprised, regardless of Trunk's ki attack strength.
Lazuli is Android 18's real name, and she had worked out Mighty Mask was the kids, and she knew the kids could do Ki attacks.
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* Yu Narukami Aug 30 2014, 11:56 AM Post #32
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Izanagi!

 Trunks was only able to punch. He basically had to drag Goten around, as Goten didn't do anything at all. No kicks were thrown and Trunks had to dodge while pulling Goten around to do the same. You could argue that #18 was holding back, sure, but how much power was she using? You could argue that she was suppressed to Raditz' level, but do you really think the Base Kids are that weak? Of course not; because her suppressing is too vague and inconclusive, so we can safely assume that she was using her full power after she realised that the Mighty Mask was very strong.
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+ Emmeth Aug 30 2014, 01:43 PM Post #33
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 Addon: 18 was scared in the absolute moment she saw the blast fly by. After that, she concluded she could still win and remained calm.

But hey, why not. Let's have Base kiddos x2 the androids at this point. While we're at it, let's rename the saga Only Saiyans Are Important Arc.
Edited by Emmeth, Aug 30 2014, 01:44 PM.
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+ Pyrus Aug 30 2014, 01:58 PM Post #34
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Emmeth
Aug 30 2014, 01:43 PM
Addon: 18 was scared in the absolute moment she saw the blast fly by. After that, she concluded she could still win and remained calm.

But hey, why not. Let's have Base kiddos x2 the androids at this point. While we're at it, let's rename the saga Only Saiyans Are Important Arc.
She did formulate a plan to win and succeeded in that plan. She used a potentially lethal technique to disqualify—not beat—the boys, not the slightest bit interested in continuing the fight as it was due simply to that suppressed blast.
Edited by Pyrus, Aug 30 2014, 02:00 PM.
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+ Emmeth Aug 30 2014, 02:19 PM Post #35
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Pyrus
Aug 30 2014, 01:58 PM
Emmeth
Aug 30 2014, 01:43 PM
Addon: 18 was scared in the absolute moment she saw the blast fly by. After that, she concluded she could still win and remained calm.

But hey, why not. Let's have Base kiddos x2 the androids at this point. While we're at it, let's rename the saga Only Saiyans Are Important Arc.
She did formulate a plan to win and succeeded in that plan. She used a potentially lethal technique to disqualify—not beat—the boys, not the slightest bit interested in continuing the fight as it was due simply to that suppressed blast.
Never said she could win against Super Saiyan kids. There's no reason to believe she wasn't holding back when fighting them in Base.
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+ Clearin Aug 30 2014, 02:20 PM Post #36
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 Why would she hold back? She was fighting them pretty much evenly, with her having a slight advantage due to Trunks restricted movements. If she was holding back instead of just fighting them on equal grounds, why wouldn't she raise her power by 10% and knock them out of the ring?
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+ Emmeth Aug 30 2014, 02:23 PM Post #37
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Clearin
Aug 30 2014, 02:20 PM
Why would she hold back? She was fighting them pretty much evenly, with her having a slight advantage due to Trunks restricted movements. If she was holding back instead of just fighting them on equal grounds, why wouldn't she raise her power by 10% and knock them out of the ring?
She never got the chance? The fight was short and she had the advantage all the time. Do I really see a different match than everybody else?
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+ Clearin Aug 30 2014, 02:31 PM Post #38
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Emmeth
Aug 30 2014, 02:23 PM
Clearin
Aug 30 2014, 02:20 PM
Why would she hold back? She was fighting them pretty much evenly, with her having a slight advantage due to Trunks restricted movements. If she was holding back instead of just fighting them on equal grounds, why wouldn't she raise her power by 10% and knock them out of the ring?
She never got the chance? The fight was short and she had the advantage all the time. Do I really see a different match than everybody else?
She definitely had a chance. Look at this page alone:
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This is the very start of the fight and already Mighty Mask has blocked multiple punches and kicks. The next page shows them blocking even more. You'd think she'd just raise her power a bit after he blocked the first 10 hits.
Edited by Clearin, Aug 30 2014, 02:32 PM.
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+ Pyrus Aug 30 2014, 02:34 PM Post #39
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Emmeth
Aug 30 2014, 02:19 PM
Pyrus
Aug 30 2014, 01:58 PM
Emmeth
Aug 30 2014, 01:43 PM
Addon: 18 was scared in the absolute moment she saw the blast fly by. After that, she concluded she could still win and remained calm.

But hey, why not. Let's have Base kiddos x2 the androids at this point. While we're at it, let's rename the saga Only Saiyans Are Important Arc.
She did formulate a plan to win and succeeded in that plan. She used a potentially lethal technique to disqualify—not beat—the boys, not the slightest bit interested in continuing the fight as it was due simply to that suppressed blast.
Never said she could win against Super Saiyan kids. There's no reason to believe she wasn't holding back when fighting them in Base.
Thought you were dismissing her fear.
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+ Emmeth Aug 30 2014, 02:39 PM Post #40
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Pyrus
Aug 30 2014, 02:34 PM
Emmeth
Aug 30 2014, 02:19 PM
Pyrus
Aug 30 2014, 01:58 PM
Emmeth
Aug 30 2014, 01:43 PM
Addon: 18 was scared in the absolute moment she saw the blast fly by. After that, she concluded she could still win and remained calm.

But hey, why not. Let's have Base kiddos x2 the androids at this point. While we're at it, let's rename the saga Only Saiyans Are Important Arc.
She did formulate a plan to win and succeeded in that plan. She used a potentially lethal technique to disqualify—not beat—the boys, not the slightest bit interested in continuing the fight as it was due simply to that suppressed blast.
Never said she could win against Super Saiyan kids. There's no reason to believe she wasn't holding back when fighting them in Base.
Thought you were dismissing her fear.
I am. Follow me, man.

@Clearin Quick judgment to potentially kill a human? That's what I see.
Edited by Emmeth, Aug 30 2014, 02:41 PM.
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+ Clearin Aug 30 2014, 02:43 PM Post #41
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Emmeth
Aug 30 2014, 02:39 PM
Pyrus
Aug 30 2014, 02:34 PM
Emmeth
Aug 30 2014, 02:19 PM
Pyrus
Aug 30 2014, 01:58 PM
Emmeth
Aug 30 2014, 01:43 PM
Addon: 18 was scared in the absolute moment she saw the blast fly by. After that, she concluded she could still win and remained calm.

But hey, why not. Let's have Base kiddos x2 the androids at this point. While we're at it, let's rename the saga Only Saiyans Are Important Arc.
She did formulate a plan to win and succeeded in that plan. She used a potentially lethal technique to disqualify—not beat—the boys, not the slightest bit interested in continuing the fight as it was due simply to that suppressed blast.
Never said she could win against Super Saiyan kids. There's no reason to believe she wasn't holding back when fighting them in Base.
Thought you were dismissing her fear.
I am. Follow me, man.

@Clearin Quick judgment to potentially kill a human? That's what I see.
But she's using enough force to actually make Trunks use a considerable amount of effort to block her attacks. If she hit a regular human like that she'd knock their head clean off. How did she know to use the exact amount of strength that would make Trunks need to block her, but not enough to knock him out?
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+ Yusuke Aug 30 2014, 02:49 PM Post #42
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 I don't even understand why this is even a debate.

Daiz Entry + The fight itself shows that the Kids were either evenly matched, had a slight advantage, or had a slight disadvantage. Even going with the last option, the Kids wouldn't be that far removed from 18.
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+ Pyrus Aug 30 2014, 02:58 PM Post #43
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Emmeth
Aug 30 2014, 02:39 PM
Pyrus
Aug 30 2014, 02:34 PM
Emmeth
Aug 30 2014, 02:19 PM
Pyrus
Aug 30 2014, 01:58 PM
Emmeth
Aug 30 2014, 01:43 PM
Addon: 18 was scared in the absolute moment she saw the blast fly by. After that, she concluded she could still win and remained calm.

But hey, why not. Let's have Base kiddos x2 the androids at this point. While we're at it, let's rename the saga Only Saiyans Are Important Arc.
She did formulate a plan to win and succeeded in that plan. She used a potentially lethal technique to disqualify—not beat—the boys, not the slightest bit interested in continuing the fight as it was due simply to that suppressed blast.
Never said she could win against Super Saiyan kids. There's no reason to believe she wasn't holding back when fighting them in Base.
Thought you were dismissing her fear.
I am. Follow me, man.

@Clearin Quick judgment to potentially kill a human? That's what I see.
If you're dismissing her fear, then what's your hard sell on arguing the boys as Super Saiyans surpass her?
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+ Emmeth Aug 30 2014, 03:01 PM Post #44
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Pyrus
Aug 30 2014, 02:58 PM
If you're dismissing her fear, then what's your hard sell on arguing the boys as Super Saiyans surpass her?
That they resorted to a ki blast to end it off.
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TheACE Aug 30 2014, 03:01 PM Post #45
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The Last GT Fighter
Urameshi
Aug 30 2014, 02:49 PM
I don't even understand why this is even a debate.

Daiz Entry + The fight itself shows that the Kids were either evenly matched, had a slight advantage, or had a slight disadvantage. Even going with the last option, the Kids wouldn't be that far removed from 18.
This is a debate because source material > data books. And since their power is non-numerical and open to interpretation, we can do that. That being said Yusuke, I know that the costume isn't easy to fight in, but I refuse to believe that pair of bed sheets hinder these Super Powered planet busters so hard that it makes an actual difference. It's like making Bruce Lee fight in skinny jeans. Yeah they aren't easy to kick in, but if it's that big a deal then Bruce Lee isn't the badass that Bruce Lee portrays himself to be. Super powers, unless you are kryptonian, are not dependent on outerwear. If they were, the Z Fighters would be naked all of the time. So no, that's not gonna fly.

Subject of board: Yakon vs the Androids. Just on attack properties I still give the twins a win if they discover the same weakness Goku did. Overload Yakkon's big green dub, err, big green froggy butt.
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