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Frieza vs Pui Pui
Topic Started: Aug 27 2014, 01:43 AM (4,717 Views)
Mihawk
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SuperSaiyanQ
Aug 28 2014, 07:12 PM
forgot
I think this right here is the source of controversy. A decent mangka would it make clear that forgetfulness occurred. There's no reason here to assume he forgot apart from keeping the consistency of a view point.

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Then you can just explain his shock at Vegeta by saying that there's no way he's so strong in base, I suppose. AT during Boo ain't even decent btw :p
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Mihawk
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SuperSaiyanQ
Aug 28 2014, 07:44 PM
Then you can just explain his shock at Vegeta by saying that there's no way he's so strong in base, I suppose. AT during Boo ain't even decent btw :p
lol I doubt it, seeing as he got the SSJ power boosting epiphany a bit later (he never saw Vegeta do it either). Well then, the bad writing does open a ton of possibilities.

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Babidi sent Pui Pui out to deal with everyone, including Kaioshin, he didn't know Vegeta would be fighting alone in base. Assuming Babidi knows Kaioshins power (bit of conjecture there but whatever) then Pui Pui should take this.
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Itachi
Aug 28 2014, 07:49 PM
SuperSaiyanQ
Aug 28 2014, 07:44 PM
Then you can just explain his shock at Vegeta by saying that there's no way he's so strong in base, I suppose.
lol I doubt it, seeing as he got the SSJ power boosting epiphany a bit later (he never saw Vegeta do it either).
No, I think he should know that Vegeta could use it, it's just that he didn't know that the Saiyans could bring it forth so quickly in a pinch like that...or at least, that's what his line seems to say. So it could be like, "so you're fighting alone and you aren't even at least transforming beforehand....oh wow, so you're that strong without even transforming...oh hey, so not transforming beforehand wasn't even a problem anyway..."
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Mihawk
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^Finally I see you breaking down a bit haha. Once again I doubt it as he already saw SSJ2 Gohan boost up just for fun. Going further than this we'll just have to agree to disagree.

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Itachi
Aug 28 2014, 08:32 PM
Once again I doubt it as he already saw SSJ2 Gohan boost up just for fun.
Then the only option is Base Vegeta > SSJ2 Gohan. Have fun ^.^
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Mihawk
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SuperSaiyanQ
Aug 28 2014, 08:34 PM
Itachi
Aug 28 2014, 08:32 PM
Once again I doubt it as he already saw SSJ2 Gohan boost up just for fun.
Then the only option is Base Vegeta > SSJ2 Gohan. Have fun ^.^
That's only if we follow all of your rules tho. :p

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What rules?
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Kibito was allowing—encouraging, more like—Gohan to transform in a controlled setting. Pui-Pui and Yakon were on the attack without being so nice. Maybe it's just me, but there's a difference in practicality there.

@Saiyan Paladin: I dunno. The gravity argument may have its holes, as Kyo has so graciously shown me, but it's still a better argument than "he thought 10x was something so he must be Saiyan Saga Vegeta level hurr durr."

And you don't want to know. ;)
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The whole "Saiyan saga level" argument, the way it's typically used, only works if you think that getting used to the gravity isn't ever a factor, anyway, in which case all you can do is prove that Pui is an idiot, because that line of thinking would have you believe that the stronger person always does better in higher gravity settings.
Edited by Kyouks, Aug 28 2014, 08:52 PM.
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Mihawk
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SuperSaiyanQ
Aug 28 2014, 08:46 PM
What rules?

Like Kaio being reliable sensor. Also did he know Dabura's power. If he did, then we're gonna have some serious issues with his reliability sensing strength.
SuperSaiyanQ
Aug 28 2014, 08:51 PM
The whole "Saiyan saga level" argument, the way it's typically used, only works if you think that getting used to the gravity isn't ever a factor, anyway, in which case all you can do is prove that Pui is an idiot, because that line of thinking would have you believe that the stronger person always does better in higher gravity settings.

Ironically enough, I don't see the issue with him acting in desperation as it's been done multiple times by previous villains (see: Cell going fat vs SSJ2 Gohan).

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Itachi
Aug 28 2014, 08:58 PM
Like Kaio being reliable sensor.
Did I make that rule up?
Itachi
Aug 28 2014, 08:58 PM
Also did he know Dabura's power.
I'd say nope.
Itachi
Aug 28 2014, 08:58 PM
Ironically enough, I don't see the issue with him acting in desperation as it's been done multiple times by previous villains (see: Cell going fat vs SSJ2 Gohan).
Yep, like I said, going that route would just prove that he's lost his mind, which is why I don't think it's a good argument. Even arguing "it must've been author's intent to show that Pui < Saiyan saga people because of 10g regardless of who's used to what" is better (which I also dislike).
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Did Kaioshin know Dabura's power? He said he might not have been able to beat Babidi without the Saiyans, one of which he admitted was stronger than himself (Goku) and another he indirectly stated was stronger than him (SSj2 Gohan), and that was before he knew what Babidi was working with. Once he saw Dabura he severely doubted his chances, but then again, he didn't know Super Saiyan could be used in a pinch at the time, so there's that factor to consider.

He wanted Gohan to fight Dabura the second time so he could take on Babidi, but that may have been because he couldn't beat both at the same time.

Both he and Dabura iterated that Dabura was the superior of the two, and by a noticeable amount too. I doubt Toriyama would've been that dense as to lead us on like that if Kaioshin was really the superior of the two, writing-wise, but who knows!
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Kaioshin thinking that Gohan can maybe manage to beat Dabura later most likely means he didn't know Dabura's strength before.
Edited by Kyouks, Aug 28 2014, 09:09 PM.
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