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- Frieza vs Pui Pui
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| Frieza vs Pui Pui | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 27 2014, 01:43 AM (4,720 Views) | |
| + Kyouks | Aug 27 2014, 08:33 PM Post #31 |
 
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Firstly, if anyone wants to argue that Kaioshin didn't know of Pui Pui's power, argue that Pui Pui can't be sensed, since there's evidence that all the Majins bar Vegeta can't be sensed (Goku notes that Spopo can't be sensed, and Dabura and Yakon are gauged/felt by movements/air disturbances rather than chi), whereas there's too much going against the idea that Kaioshin can't sense people. His reactions to Vegeta and Goku can be explained in plenty of ways. He could be surprised that Vegeta could muster up such power in only base form. Or, like KP pointed out earlier, Gohan didn't come to his mind until after he wonders "is this Super Saiyan thing really this great"? He also didn't seem to realize that the Saiyans could muster up tremendous power in a pinch as Goku did against Yakon (“S-so that’s why these 3 have such composure...In a pinch, they can put forth tremendous power, like Son Goku displayed momentarily…”). And so on. Secondly, show me where Pui Pui was used as a measuring stick like Chapa or something, and I'll shut up. Last I checked, Babidi's the only one who does this. |
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| + Emmeth | Aug 27 2014, 08:38 PM Post #32 |
I ♥ Yoeri
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Kaioshin isn't surprised that the Saiyans can use Super Saiyan. He's surprised they can use it in a pinch like Goku did against Yakon. For all we know, Gohan could've been in his resting power at the Budokai. Going by logic, he shouldn't have been SSJ2 at all. |
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| + Kyouks | Aug 27 2014, 08:46 PM Post #33 |
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^If that's directed at me, then that's what I said. |
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| + Emmeth | Aug 27 2014, 08:47 PM Post #34 |
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I ♥ Yoeri
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I know you did. I was agreeing with you. |
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| Mihawk | Aug 27 2014, 08:50 PM Post #35 |
 
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He gets a general idea of the Saiyan's power after the fight: "Such power" - dumb founded look. He didn't believe himself to be over PuiPui and never corrects himself after the battle and instead gives Vegeta a power estimate (unstated as to what it was exactly). But seeing as he's impressed it's likely somewhere above Freeza as he wouldn't be sweating balls otherwise. I don't doubt it's possible for him to be dumping the sweat over cooking someone under Freeza, just very unlikely. |
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| + Kyouks | Aug 27 2014, 08:54 PM Post #36 |
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Still have to explain Gohan, then. |
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| Mihawk | Aug 27 2014, 09:00 PM Post #37 |
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You're being very vague. If you're arguing Kaioshin could sense the entire time then we wouldn't have the issue of him now knowing his power. And if he did know his power, the two occurrences below are extremely unlikely A) Opting to quadruple team someone who he could one shot easily (especially considering he thought Goku was even more superior to him - just making things worse) B) Sweating after seeing someone he could trash easily being cooked without effort. Being impressed? Possible (although unlikely). Sweating? Now you're being dishonest. |
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| + Emmeth | Aug 27 2014, 09:03 PM Post #38 |
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I ♥ Yoeri
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Not sure why sweating EVER is a viable argument when discussing Dragonball Z, but whatever. |
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| Mihawk | Aug 27 2014, 09:06 PM Post #39 |
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Can you give me an example of someone who was sweating when watching a weaker opponent be defeated? Was Vegeta sweating when he saw Goku fight Nappa? Is there a single scenario that would help your cause? |
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| + Kyouks | Aug 27 2014, 09:06 PM Post #40 |
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You talking about Vegeta or Pui Pui? I'm assuming the former, in which case I'd point out that fighters don't really put out their chi like that before fighting. Goku shows up to fight the Ginyus at 5000, for example, and Piccolo does the same (though there's no stated figure like 5000) when he fights the androids (the weaker ones, I mean). Relevant quotes, pls. Still waiting for measuring stick proof, mang. So far, you're just telling me that he now knows Vegeta was really strong. |
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| + Emmeth | Aug 27 2014, 09:10 PM Post #41 |
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I ♥ Yoeri
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How about everybody when Gohan was beating the s*** out of Cell? |
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| + Kyouks | Aug 27 2014, 09:11 PM Post #42 |
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Cell was > everyone, though. |
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| Mihawk | Aug 27 2014, 09:12 PM Post #43 |
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Talking PuiPui.
Chapter: 509 (DBZ 315), P11.3 Context: as Goku and Vegeta play rock-paper-scissors to decide who fights Boo Elder Kaioshin: “Th-those dimwits! Th-they intend to fight one at a time?! They’re not gonna fight together?!”
The measuring stick part was only needed for those who were claiming that he didn't know PuiPui's power. That's not the case here. However, the unlikeliness of him sweating while watching an opponent he could one shot be cooked (in multiple shots) is the main issue. Like I said it's not impossible, just extremely unlikely. |
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| + Emmeth | Aug 27 2014, 09:13 PM Post #44 |
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I ♥ Yoeri
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Doesn't matter. When it comes to sweating, it's the same situation. Kai was sweating because Vegeta was stronger than he thought. Zet-Senshi was sweating because Gohan was much stronger than they could imagine. |
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| + Kyouks | Aug 27 2014, 09:19 PM Post #45 |
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Said something about Pui not being sensed before, will explain it here again. Majin Spopo can't be sensed: Chapter: 441 (DBZ 247), P4.4 Context: as Videl fights Spopovitch Goku: “Like I thought, that Spopovitch guy is weird…He seems too fine, despite the fact that he should have taken so much damage, and I can’t sense any life from him… Majin Dabura is gauged by movements, not chi, like the androids were: Chapter: 450 (DBZ 256), P2.5, P3.1-4 Context: after Kaioshin again warns against unleashing Boo Vegeta: “Hmph…The way things are going, this ‘Majin Boo’ guy isn’t going to be anything special, is he? Just like that ‘Dabra’ jerk…[ ] I’m saying that this ‘Dabra’ guy doesn’t seem as bad as you two feared. Looking at his attacks and movement outside earlier, it seems that if we just watch out for his spit, then we should manage something. I can’t call Kibito anything but a bumbler for getting done-in like that…” Majin Yakon is felt out by air currents, not chi: Chapter: 450 (DBZ 256), P11.1 Context: after Goku manages to kick Yakon in the dark Goku: “You’ve underestimated us too much. Even in pitch darkness, I can easily tell your movements. Through things like the subtle flow of the air…” Unlike Vegeta, Pui submitted to Babidi completely like those guys, so I think he can't be sensed either. Will even go as far as to say that Kaioshin says nothing about his actual power, which would help my case. Wrong quote yo, that's about Kid Boo. I haven't really said it yet, but it is  Because if Pui was actually <<< Kaioshin, then Kaioshin would know after the fight, is what you're saying? |
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