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Discussion about what is fact
Topic Started: Jul 26 2014, 09:23 PM (1,949 Views)
+ Ssj3vegito96
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I've been thinking the same thing. For example, the dbz anime has never been stated to be non canon or not count or anything. If it doesn't contradict the manga, what's the problem with using some stuff from the anime?
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Mihawk
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It depends what you're talking about. If you're debating specifically the manga, the only manga facts are manga facts. If we're talking about the entire franchise then other things come into play too such as the guidebooks and interviews.

A lot of people here go with manga exclusively to avoid the contradictions bringing in guidebooks, movies, anime and interviews cause.

Ultimately this has no impact on the other thread since there's no evidence that guidebook sketch is to scale.

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* Yu Narukami
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Izanagi!

Happy
Jul 26 2014, 11:42 PM
i am still trying to find that god dam interview -.- however


as stated before Akira Toriyama stated that the number didnt matter so he couldve easily adjusted it so the question is if he said its 1/2 of the universe and then go as far as to state that it couldve been 100 million or 100 thousands then what does that mean ? and also what about the illustration ?


Its a Fact that in the manga then Kamicolo states something like this " The Legend says that the serpent road is 1 million km" *LEGEND* does it count as a FACT that its 1 million or that its still a myth ? so basically by that line

you can automatically say that what Akira Toriyama stated and showed in his Illustration of Serpent road/snake way might /might not be illogical and might make sense

but the problem doesnt lie in how big snake way is snake way is 1/2 of the universe which is a fact stated by him and illustration which is a backup of his statement


I just want to know how to scale the Z-warriors speed if it indeedly is 1/2 of the universe

so first of all

1. "Legends" doesnt count as a FACT it counts as a myth

2. Manga Fact of snake way 1 million km however do notice it says ( Legend )

3. Fact its 1/2 of the universe and yes i will try and find the interview somehow to prove it
Why would Toriyama put 1,000,000 there in the first place? If he wanted to keep it open for debate he could've simply said;

"This is Snake Way. It's extremely long, legends say it goes on forever"


Or something akin to that. It'd have the desired effect and he wouldn't lock himself in with the number. The 1,000,000 statement was fact.
Edited by Yu Narukami, Jul 26 2014, 11:58 PM.
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Happy
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Ssj3vegito96
Jul 26 2014, 11:47 PM
I've been thinking the same thing. For example, the dbz anime has never been stated to be non canon or not count or anything. If it doesn't contradict the manga, what's the problem with using some stuff from the anime?
well as far as anime goes i heard this from someone and please do note guys that this wont be stated as fact nor as anything that can be dismissed


Do you remember that lovely charracter Pikon ? well he isnt Canon he is actually a filler due to him not being in the manga but thats not the chase here as to what i want to talk about


If you for example watch a filler of dbz or a movie of dbz then you have to go by this


this may sound like a bad comparison but its just a little example okay guys !?

Lets say there was a filler about Vegito against saybamen and saybamen defeats Vegito = then it contradicts the story due to vegito being the most power full fusioned charracter before battle of gods


but lets say Vegito defeats saybamen with ease then it can be counted as canon due to it showing the obvious feat and outcome to the charracter as if it was a manga Super Buutenks vs goku ssj3 is a filler they arent even fighting in the manga its only gohan and super buutenks that does

However Gotenks SSJ3 in the manga was "equal" to Super Buu i cant say whom is stronger but its around there

In the filler you see Goku ssj3 gets Toyed by Super Butenks which is the most possible outcome if they thought in the manga so that right there doesnt contradicts with the story


now to a completely random one

what if an Author states something and backs it up with an illustration and i mean a manga author? if the story itself states the road is a "legend" which could count as a myth ?

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Dankness Lava
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Dankness Forever

If he truly said "Legends say it's a million miles..." it could just be a hyperbole. A great number just to show it's freakishly long. I'm saying if that's how he says it. I don't have that part of the manga, so I don't know myself.
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Happy
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Naked Snake
Jul 26 2014, 11:56 PM
Happy
Jul 26 2014, 11:42 PM
i am still trying to find that god dam interview -.- however


as stated before Akira Toriyama stated that the number didnt matter so he couldve easily adjusted it so the question is if he said its 1/2 of the universe and then go as far as to state that it couldve been 100 million or 100 thousands then what does that mean ? and also what about the illustration ?


Its a Fact that in the manga then Kamicolo states something like this " The Legend says that the serpent road is 1 million km" *LEGEND* does it count as a FACT that its 1 million or that its still a myth ? so basically by that line

you can automatically say that what Akira Toriyama stated and showed in his Illustration of Serpent road/snake way might /might not be illogical and might make sense

but the problem doesnt lie in how big snake way is snake way is 1/2 of the universe which is a fact stated by him and illustration which is a backup of his statement


I just want to know how to scale the Z-warriors speed if it indeedly is 1/2 of the universe

so first of all

1. "Legends" doesnt count as a FACT it counts as a myth

2. Manga Fact of snake way 1 million km however do notice it says ( Legend )

3. Fact its 1/2 of the universe and yes i will try and find the interview somehow to prove it
Why would Toriyama put 1,000,000 there in the first place? If he wanted to keep it open for debate he could've simply said;

"This is Snake Way. It's extremely long, legends say it goes on forever"


Or something akin to that. It'd have the desired effect and he wouldn't lock himself in with the number. The 1,000,000 statement was fact.
i apologize thousands of times due to me spamming about the same thing all over

Q: Akira sensei why did you choose the Serpent road to be 1 million km?

A: Actually i just set up a random number i could have added it to 100 million or 100 thousands km if i wanted to but my whole point of the illustration is to show that its pointless to show the number since the serpent road is 1/2 of the universe

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* Yu Narukami
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I highly doubt Toriyama would 'pick a random number' and decide to change it later. He's very serious about his own dialogue and scrutinises it down to a tee.

Again, I'll take a statement from the manga over a diagram that isn't to scale and an interview any day.
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Dankness Lava
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Dankness Forever

So is he still serious about the power levels he chose for the manga?
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Happy
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here is the chapter : http://www.mangahere.co/manga/dragon_ball/v14/c206/12.html

"According to the legend then its 1 million km " does that mean its a FACT when it says "Legend" please answer this since it could go both ways either as a fact or as a myth
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* Yu Narukami
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Izanagi!

Ben-Dan The Man
Jul 27 2014, 12:11 AM
So is he still serious about the power levels he chose for the manga?
I don't see any indication that he isn't. All of the power levels from the Saiyan Saga to the middle of Namek are still valid.

Edit @ Happy - I'll ask again, why would Toriyama put in a specific number instead of saying it's really long and giving it a number later on? It's a 'legend', yeah, but combined with author's intent and the fact that the claim wasn't disputed by Yemma, who travelled along it, it hold much more ground than any interview.
Edited by Yu Narukami, Jul 27 2014, 12:15 AM.
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Happy
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Naked Snake
Jul 27 2014, 12:10 AM
I highly doubt Toriyama would 'pick a random number' and decide to change it later. He's very serious about his own dialogue and scrutinises it down to a tee.

Again, I'll take a statement from the manga over a diagram that isn't to scale and an interview any day.
man i dont dissagree with you but i want to know FACTS not MYTHS


Did Kaioshin state that it was 1 million ? no

was it a taxi driver that said : "according to the legend" Yes it was but he said *According to the legend* that word right there makes me confused

since it can go either way as a pure myth or a fact XD
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Dankness Lava
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Dankness Forever

Fair enough. Well, you're pretty solid in your belief it seems, so I won't argue about what is fact. But the 1/2 universe thing isn't that implausible. Not to me really.
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* Yu Narukami
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Izanagi!

Happy
Jul 27 2014, 12:16 AM
Naked Snake
Jul 27 2014, 12:10 AM
I highly doubt Toriyama would 'pick a random number' and decide to change it later. He's very serious about his own dialogue and scrutinises it down to a tee.

Again, I'll take a statement from the manga over a diagram that isn't to scale and an interview any day.
man i dont dissagree with you but i want to know FACTS not MYTHS


Did Kaioshin state that it was 1 million ? no

was it a taxi driver that said : "according to the legend" Yes it was but he said *According to the legend* that word right there makes me confused

since it can go either way as a pure myth or a fact XD
That's as close to a fact as you're going to get.

Kaioshin wouldn't have to. By the time he came around, it was irrelevant and Goku already knew.
Edited by Yu Narukami, Jul 27 2014, 12:24 AM.
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Goddess Ultimecia
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Ben-Dan The Man
Jul 27 2014, 12:17 AM
Fair enough. Well, you're pretty solid in your belief it seems, so I won't argue about what is fact. But the 1/2 universe thing isn't that implausible. Not to me really.
May I ask why? When we have a mountainload of feats that go against this supposed half universe statement and apparent speed feat that has no source apparently and an illustration for it not being to scale? It's pretty implausible.

The only thing you have to go on until this interview is given a source is that 1 million KM is referred to as legend. And once you throw that out there's no stated length to it in universe, and the only out of universe explanation is a interview that has no source.
Edited by Goddess Ultimecia, Jul 27 2014, 12:26 AM.
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Happy
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Naked Snake
Jul 27 2014, 12:12 AM
Ben-Dan The Man
Jul 27 2014, 12:11 AM
So is he still serious about the power levels he chose for the manga?
I don't see any indication that he isn't. All of the power levels from the Saiyan Saga to the middle of Namek are still valid.

Edit @ Happy - I'll ask again, why would Toriyama put in a specific number instead of saying it's really long and giving it a number later on? It's a 'legend', yeah, but combined with author's intent and the fact that the claim wasn't disputed by Yemma, who travelled along it, it hold much more ground than any interview.
Emna Daio sama never said how long the snake way was

Kaioshin never said how long snake way was


That taxi driver have never run to the end of snake way


at that time it was Kaioshin sama and Emna Daio sama but they never gave any specific number only the taxi driver rofl XD


so let me ask you again is yemma what that taxi driver is called ? if so may i ask you if he have ever runned to the end of snake way and said it is 1 milion km ? instead of not even trying it out and just saying whatever the legend is ?



and about the toriyama specific number i dont know if it was answer to your question but he said that * it didnt matter how many numbers he added to the snake way* ( * the whole point is that its 1/2 of the universe *


basically what i am saying here is he didnt care about how many numbers he added in but since it would be completely useless to add the numbers he then thought of a simple way and that way was the definitive proof of the scalling of snake way which later on became questioned and answered and even as far as to be illustrated in a simple manner and also do we ( in real life ) have proof of how big 1/2 of the universe is ? why bother with so high numbers if he can say its just 1/2 of the universe ? that would make his plot easier to understand and to follow


+ i cant really state that you are wrong nor right since its considered as both a myth and as a factor for me so you arent wrong nor right

http://www.google.dk/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.comicvine.com%2Fuploads%2Foriginal%2F11111%2F111112756%2F3039847-3114139706-landm.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.comicvine.com%2Fforums%2Fgen-discussion-1%2Fmy-true-power-blog-goku-speed-1460662%2F&h=776&w=1024&tbnid=Orikh5eUOlky8M%3A&zoom=1&docid=yoTuZCoW2xHU5M&ei=B0fUU9HEJsr_ygP7roHIBQ&tbm=isch&ved=0CCcQMygKMAo&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=834&page=1&start=0&ndsp=38


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