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Piccolo, Tien, and Goku (23rd) vs Aizen, Gin, and Ichigo (FKT) vs Madara, Obito, and Sasuke (TTR)
Topic Started: Jul 22 2014, 09:54 PM (2,493 Views)
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滅Are you frightened?

Piccolo (not-weighted) teams up with Goku (not-weighted and can fly) and Tien, their all at 100%.

Aizen (Monster) teams up with Gin and Ichigo (post Dangai), their at 100%

Madara (Mangekyo) teams up with Obito (Sharingan/Rinnegan) and Sasuke (Eternal Mangekyo), their at 100%

Deserted Field 100 yards away from another.

Who wins?
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Itachi
Jul 23 2014, 09:24 PM
@Saqer none of those are real feats, just over glossing/analysis with exaggerations.
What feats? The Dragon Ball ones I listed? They are true. Definitely not exaggerated.
Edited by supersaqer, Jul 24 2014, 12:29 AM.
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* Yu Narukami
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Izanagi!

Wait a second, don't the Taiyoken and Popo examples contradict each other? Why would being 'faster than lightning' be impressive or notable at all if Goku moved faster than light at the 22nd Budokai?

Goku > Lightning > Taiyoken
Edited by Yu Narukami, Jul 24 2014, 12:29 AM.
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Naked Snake
Jul 24 2014, 12:29 AM
Wait a second, don't the Taiyoken and Popo examples contradict each other? Why would being 'faster than lightning' be impressive or notable at all if Goku moved faster than light at the 22nd Budokai?

Goku > Lightning > Taiyoken
Popo said he needs to move faster than lightning, but Goku dodged Taiyoken, which is reaction time. Faster than lightning is pretty vague if you ask me tbh.
Edited by supersaqer, Jul 24 2014, 12:32 AM.
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supersaqer
Jul 24 2014, 12:31 AM
Naked Snake
Jul 24 2014, 12:29 AM
Wait a second, don't the Taiyoken and Popo examples contradict each other? Why would being 'faster than lightning' be impressive or notable at all if Goku moved faster than light at the 22nd Budokai?

Goku > Lightning > Taiyoken
Popo said he needs to move faster than lightning, but Goku dodged Taiyoken, which is reaction time. Faster than lightning is pretty vague if you ask me tbh.
His reaction time doesn't matter if he isn't fast enough to do what he did.

'Faster than lightning' implies that the speed would still be closer to lightning than anything else.
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Naked Snake
Jul 24 2014, 12:36 AM
supersaqer
Jul 24 2014, 12:31 AM
Naked Snake
Jul 24 2014, 12:29 AM
Wait a second, don't the Taiyoken and Popo examples contradict each other? Why would being 'faster than lightning' be impressive or notable at all if Goku moved faster than light at the 22nd Budokai?

Goku > Lightning > Taiyoken
Popo said he needs to move faster than lightning, but Goku dodged Taiyoken, which is reaction time. Faster than lightning is pretty vague if you ask me tbh.
His reaction time doesn't matter if he isn't fast enough to do what he did.

'Faster than lightning' implies that the speed would still be closer to lightning than anything else.
There is a big gap between reaction time and movement speed.

But you cannot decline that the statement is still vague. A spacecraft is faster than a human. Does this mean that it's closer to human speed? Nope.
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supersaqer
Jul 24 2014, 12:50 AM
Naked Snake
Jul 24 2014, 12:36 AM
supersaqer
Jul 24 2014, 12:31 AM
Naked Snake
Jul 24 2014, 12:29 AM
Wait a second, don't the Taiyoken and Popo examples contradict each other? Why would being 'faster than lightning' be impressive or notable at all if Goku moved faster than light at the 22nd Budokai?

Goku > Lightning > Taiyoken
Popo said he needs to move faster than lightning, but Goku dodged Taiyoken, which is reaction time. Faster than lightning is pretty vague if you ask me tbh.
His reaction time doesn't matter if he isn't fast enough to do what he did.

'Faster than lightning' implies that the speed would still be closer to lightning than anything else.
There is a big gap between reaction time and movement speed.

But you cannot decline that the statement is still vague. A spacecraft is faster than a human. Does this mean that it's closer to human speed? Nope.
Yes, but if the Taiyoken really was as fast as people have said, his movement speed would have to be high enough for him to do what be did (grab Roshi's shades and return to the ring). His reaction time doesn't matter. If he wasn't fast enough to do what he did, then he wouldn't have been able to do it. Which means that you must conclude that;

A) The Taiyoken example is invalid
Or
B) The Lightning example is invalid

How fast do you think the Taiyoken was?
Edited by Yu Narukami, Jul 24 2014, 12:55 AM.
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Naked Snake
Jul 24 2014, 12:54 AM
supersaqer
Jul 24 2014, 12:50 AM
Naked Snake
Jul 24 2014, 12:36 AM
supersaqer
Jul 24 2014, 12:31 AM
Naked Snake
Jul 24 2014, 12:29 AM
Wait a second, don't the Taiyoken and Popo examples contradict each other? Why would being 'faster than lightning' be impressive or notable at all if Goku moved faster than light at the 22nd Budokai?

Goku > Lightning > Taiyoken
Popo said he needs to move faster than lightning, but Goku dodged Taiyoken, which is reaction time. Faster than lightning is pretty vague if you ask me tbh.
His reaction time doesn't matter if he isn't fast enough to do what he did.

'Faster than lightning' implies that the speed would still be closer to lightning than anything else.
There is a big gap between reaction time and movement speed.

But you cannot decline that the statement is still vague. A spacecraft is faster than a human. Does this mean that it's closer to human speed? Nope.
Yes, but if the Taiyoken really was as fast as people have said, his movement speed would have to be high enough for him to do what be did (grab Roshi's shades and return to the ring). His reaction time doesn't matter. If he wasn't fast enough to do what he did, then he wouldn't have been able to do it. Which means that you must conclude that;

A) The Taiyoken example is invalid
Or
B) The Lightning example is invalid

How fast do you think the Taiyoken was?
That was more of an travel speed thing. Goku had to move more the two yards.
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Naked Snake
Jul 24 2014, 12:54 AM
supersaqer
Jul 24 2014, 12:50 AM
Naked Snake
Jul 24 2014, 12:36 AM
supersaqer
Jul 24 2014, 12:31 AM
Naked Snake
Jul 24 2014, 12:29 AM
Wait a second, don't the Taiyoken and Popo examples contradict each other? Why would being 'faster than lightning' be impressive or notable at all if Goku moved faster than light at the 22nd Budokai?

Goku > Lightning > Taiyoken
Popo said he needs to move faster than lightning, but Goku dodged Taiyoken, which is reaction time. Faster than lightning is pretty vague if you ask me tbh.
His reaction time doesn't matter if he isn't fast enough to do what he did.

'Faster than lightning' implies that the speed would still be closer to lightning than anything else.
There is a big gap between reaction time and movement speed.

But you cannot decline that the statement is still vague. A spacecraft is faster than a human. Does this mean that it's closer to human speed? Nope.
Yes, but if the Taiyoken really was as fast as people have said, his movement speed would have to be high enough for him to do what be did (grab Roshi's shades and return to the ring). His reaction time doesn't matter. If he wasn't fast enough to do what he did, then he wouldn't have been able to do it. Which means that you must conclude that;

A) The Taiyoken example is invalid
Or
B) The Lightning example is invalid

How fast do you think the Taiyoken was?
You can say that Goku didn't necessarily have to dodge it. He probably closed his eyes, located Roshi, grabbed his shades (without him noticing), and kicked/punched Tien after. The argument is probably invalid about Goku dodging it.

Unless it was stated directly or indirectly that he dodged the technique, the argument I built over Taiyoken is probably invalid, but it can be true in the same time (my mind....). In an earlier saga, Goku dodged light several times. The "Faster than Lightning" thing is probably limited to movement speed or travel speed.

So at least we can figure that Goku is faster than lightning. Popo was already faster than lightning by an unknown amount, and Kami surpasses him heavily in every aspect. Same person who wasn't capable of keeping up with tired Goku/Piccolo with his godly eyes.

It was purely light, so I think it would travel as fast as light does.
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supersaqer
Jul 24 2014, 02:07 AM
Naked Snake
Jul 24 2014, 12:54 AM
supersaqer
Jul 24 2014, 12:50 AM
Naked Snake
Jul 24 2014, 12:36 AM
supersaqer
Jul 24 2014, 12:31 AM
Naked Snake
Jul 24 2014, 12:29 AM
Wait a second, don't the Taiyoken and Popo examples contradict each other? Why would being 'faster than lightning' be impressive or notable at all if Goku moved faster than light at the 22nd Budokai?

Goku > Lightning > Taiyoken
Popo said he needs to move faster than lightning, but Goku dodged Taiyoken, which is reaction time. Faster than lightning is pretty vague if you ask me tbh.
His reaction time doesn't matter if he isn't fast enough to do what he did.

'Faster than lightning' implies that the speed would still be closer to lightning than anything else.
There is a big gap between reaction time and movement speed.

But you cannot decline that the statement is still vague. A spacecraft is faster than a human. Does this mean that it's closer to human speed? Nope.
Yes, but if the Taiyoken really was as fast as people have said, his movement speed would have to be high enough for him to do what be did (grab Roshi's shades and return to the ring). His reaction time doesn't matter. If he wasn't fast enough to do what he did, then he wouldn't have been able to do it. Which means that you must conclude that;

A) The Taiyoken example is invalid
Or
B) The Lightning example is invalid

How fast do you think the Taiyoken was?
You can say that Goku didn't necessarily have to dodge it. He probably closed his eyes, located Roshi, grabbed his shades (without him noticing), and kicked/punched Tien after. The argument is probably invalid about Goku dodging it.

Unless it was stated directly or indirectly that he dodged the technique, the argument I built over Taiyoken is probably invalid, but it can be true in the same time (my mind....). In an earlier saga, Goku dodged light several times. The "Faster than Lightning" thing is probably limited to movement speed or travel speed.

So at least we can figure that Goku is faster than lightning. Popo was already faster than lightning by an unknown amount, and Kami surpasses him heavily in every aspect. Same person who wasn't capable of keeping up with tired Goku/Piccolo with his godly eyes.

It was purely light, so I think it would travel as fast as light does.
When did Goku dodge light? I can't seem to recall any instances where that happened.

Also, if Goku could close his eyes to stop the Taiyoken affecting him, why would he need Roshi's shades at all?
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I'm so tired of debunking all the metaphors and gags that I'm not gonna bother with them in this thread again. When I get the chance I'll make a thread debunking all of them in the DB section and then never deal with them again.

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Itachi
Jul 24 2014, 03:37 AM
I'm so tired of debunking all the metaphors and gags that I'm not gonna bother with them in this thread again. When I get the chance I'll make a thread debunking all of them in the DB section and then never deal with them again.
Go ahead and try, but that doesn't mean it's gonna overrule what the manga showed or stated.
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Naked Snake
Jul 24 2014, 02:12 AM
supersaqer
Jul 24 2014, 02:07 AM
Naked Snake
Jul 24 2014, 12:54 AM
supersaqer
Jul 24 2014, 12:50 AM
Naked Snake
Jul 24 2014, 12:36 AM
supersaqer
Jul 24 2014, 12:31 AM
Naked Snake
Jul 24 2014, 12:29 AM
Wait a second, don't the Taiyoken and Popo examples contradict each other? Why would being 'faster than lightning' be impressive or notable at all if Goku moved faster than light at the 22nd Budokai?

Goku > Lightning > Taiyoken
Popo said he needs to move faster than lightning, but Goku dodged Taiyoken, which is reaction time. Faster than lightning is pretty vague if you ask me tbh.
His reaction time doesn't matter if he isn't fast enough to do what he did.

'Faster than lightning' implies that the speed would still be closer to lightning than anything else.
There is a big gap between reaction time and movement speed.

But you cannot decline that the statement is still vague. A spacecraft is faster than a human. Does this mean that it's closer to human speed? Nope.
Yes, but if the Taiyoken really was as fast as people have said, his movement speed would have to be high enough for him to do what be did (grab Roshi's shades and return to the ring). His reaction time doesn't matter. If he wasn't fast enough to do what he did, then he wouldn't have been able to do it. Which means that you must conclude that;

A) The Taiyoken example is invalid
Or
B) The Lightning example is invalid

How fast do you think the Taiyoken was?
You can say that Goku didn't necessarily have to dodge it. He probably closed his eyes, located Roshi, grabbed his shades (without him noticing), and kicked/punched Tien after. The argument is probably invalid about Goku dodging it.

Unless it was stated directly or indirectly that he dodged the technique, the argument I built over Taiyoken is probably invalid, but it can be true in the same time (my mind....). In an earlier saga, Goku dodged light several times. The "Faster than Lightning" thing is probably limited to movement speed or travel speed.

So at least we can figure that Goku is faster than lightning. Popo was already faster than lightning by an unknown amount, and Kami surpasses him heavily in every aspect. Same person who wasn't capable of keeping up with tired Goku/Piccolo with his godly eyes.

It was purely light, so I think it would travel as fast as light does.
When did Goku dodge light? I can't seem to recall any instances where that happened.

Also, if Goku could close his eyes to stop the Taiyoken affecting him, why would he need Roshi's shades at all?
He dodged light beams and lasers in the RRA Arc.

Hmm, now that I think about it, it seems that he needed Roshi's shades.
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Isn't Dangai Ichigo closer to BOZ Goku and Piccolo. I thought he was placed at being strong enough to help against Raditz and Nappa.
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Amaterasu clearly is a projectile though and yeah the first person to get hit would probably be screwed but everyone with half a brain would know to dodge after, and if it hit Aizen anywhere except the head and torso he could cut it off and regenerate.
Although I forget how good is his regen? Can't remember how extreme it is can he handle his head being cut off etc? Ulquiorra couldn't handle his organs being damaged much IIRC but Aizen's regen is fueled by the Hogyoko.

If Amaterasu wasn't a projectile why would Sasuke even bother with the arrow? If it wasn't a projectile how could he have used it to his advantage against Itachi in such a way? It fires and it falls to the forest below and against Raikage we see it about to hit him, then Raikage dodges and it hits a samurai behind him.

If it's not a projectile why does it hit things the user wasn't aiming at? Because it is a projectile, a fast, invisible or nearly invisible one.
I say nearly since Raikage must have seen it just before it hit him.


And yeah Ichigo is getting pretty under rated here. Hard to place him though since all he really did was clash blades and tank everything Aizen threw at him. All we can really do is take Aizen's attributes but a little better I guess.
I would say Aizen is a more powerful pawn than Ichigo by far though due to regen, intelligence, variety.
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miguelnuva
Jul 24 2014, 08:38 AM
Isn't Dangai Ichigo closer to BOZ Goku and Piccolo. I thought he was placed at being strong enough to help against Raditz and Nappa.
Don't think so. Piccolo could generate enough energy to wipe everything off an island nearly as big as a continent, shook it, and shook the ocean nearby. And that's after Goku took on most of the blast. That was in the 23rd TB, and Goku/Piccolo got stronger after that.
Edited by supersaqer, Jul 24 2014, 04:12 PM.
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