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| Why Vegeta is better than Goku (in my opinion) | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 22 2014, 09:12 PM (1,808 Views) | |
| superperfectnerd | Jul 22 2014, 09:12 PM Post #1 |
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I remember as a much younger human, a child to be somewhat exact, I would race home from school full of glee ready to watch another twenty minute instalment of my favourite anime, sitting patiently whilst the majority of the episode meandered slowly through filler (God I hate the filler) until something awesome happened, for example my favourite character Goku one upping that mean old Prince of all Saiyans...then I got older. I re-watched Dragonball and Dragonball z and even GT! And in my older and more wizened mind I became sure of one thing, Vegeta is far and away the most interesting character in the show. Now I said "interesting", not "strongest", but it is his failings as much as his successes that makes him so interesting. Warning, this does contain spoilers if you haven't seen the show/read the manga. I see the 'Goku or Vegeta' debate raging from time to time and can't comprehend that anybody over the age of sixteen can honestly watch DBZ and not see Vegeta's superiority, in my mind they must be blinded by nostalgia, because let's face it kids are stupid and kids love the righteous hero who always triumphs over evil no matter how little depth they have as a character. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I hate traditional super heroes, I much prefer the Reeves Superman to that violent, dark, gritty Man of Steel. Why does everything have to be dark and gritty now? Oh and angsty! Don't get me started on all the angst! Since when did a film about a man who can fly and shoot lasers from his eyes have to take itself so seriously? There is no (good) humour or charm in that film and when a bit does appear it feels completely out of place...wow I've strayed from the topic...anyway, these other heroes always have depth and go through changes over time, they mature, they have fears and doubts and a whole host of other genuine, relatable human traits. Goku however is pretty much the same guy from the beginning of Dragonball until the end of Z, infact Master Roshi summed him up in the new Battle of Gods movie, "Goku is an idiot who loves to fight". I don't hate Goku, far from it, he's funny and occasionally badass, I especially love Kid Goku, he's probably my second favourite as his innocent ignorance is funny and adorable back then, but as a man it's not as charming. Both Goku and Vegeta end up becoming heroes, but how Vegeta gets there is a lot more interesting. Goku is a good man who loves to fight, not for others nor the for sake of his world, he loves to fight because he is a Saiyan and it's in his nature, he will protect the world, but that isn't his purpose for training, he's said himself that he is excited by the prospect of fighting tough opponents, even when the fate of the universe hangs in the balance. Goku was sent to the Earth as a baby 'programmed' with the mission to destroy all humans, luckily for him and the people of Earth he was picked up by a kind old man...who let him fall down a chasm and smack his head, deleting his 'mission' and any inherent violent Saiyan nature, leaving only the thirst to fight for sport. being raised by a kind, old man far from civilisation made him happy, kind and stupid. He had a good childhood, until unknowingly squashing his Grandpa when he looked at the full moon (oops) but was soon picked up by Bulma, made many friends and saved the world, he was happy and even got to see his grandfather again. The Dragonballs allowed him to revive lost loved ones and he met an attractive lady with whom he eventually (after finally learning the intricate differences between men and women) had a child. That's it. Goku became the happy go lucky good guy from brain damage followed by good parenting...the end. Vegeta's story is somewhat more complex and far more tragic. The Saiyans in terms of industrial, technologically advanced species were new to the game, it was only Vegeta's father who rallied the saiyans against the Tuffles and overthrew them to claim the planet for their own. Shortly after this they became space-farers thanks to alien technology and were discovered by Freeza. Now whilst the Saiyans couldn't be considered a 'nice' people they had honour and presumably destroyed weak races in self preservation for the fear that Freeza would destroy them. Vegeta was born the Prince of all Saiyans with a natural power unlike any seen before, even amongst the Saiyan elites. He surpassed his father (the strongest Saiyan) as a young child and was told of the legendary Super Saiyan he was destined to become. He was soon ripped from his home world and away from his parents by Freeza, who feared the potential power of the Saiyans, opting to keep a closer eye on Vegeta and to flaunt his power over the mighty warrior race. This meant he would have to endure constant mockery, mental and most likely physical torture at the hands of Freeza and his elites, knowing that he was completely and utterly powerless against such a ridiculous force as Freeza. He was put to work slaughtering billions/trillions of innocents and as a child, that's not gonna build a loving, happy persona. He then had to learn of the destruction of his home world and the deaths of all those he had ever known except for Nappa and Raditz, again, not exactly unicorns and rainbows. Vegeta was left with one sole purpose for his entire existence, to become the strongest Saiyan to ever live and to eventually free himself from Freeza, taking the universe for his own in the process. His ambition and most importantly his PRIDE as the strongest Saiyan was all he had. Until Goku ripped it from him. Goku (with help) gave Vegeta his first defeat, he had never openly challenged Freeza or his elites so presumably had easlily conquered any foe, leaving him broken but with renewed purpose. His defeat gifted him a zenkai (near death power boost) that was probably extremely rare for a fighter of his calibre and it also showed him Saiyan potential under duress, having seen Goku go from a power level of 400 to over 8000 in a year. He also discovered Namekian Dragonballs and used his cunningto eradicate Freeza's top men guerilla warfare style. His hopes came to nothing in the end as he was defeated, tortured and finally killed by his life long imprisoner, having to desperately shed his pride and a few tears and beg his low class rival to do what he could not. That is a touching and tragic moment that you never get close to with Goku and a milestone in Vegata's development. Next he becomes obsessed with surpassing his rival, it is the only thing he has left and surpassing Goku will once again make his life feel worthwhile. He trains ruthlessly even when his body is broken showing off his extreme willpower, only to once again be surpassed by Goku and to add insult to injury his half breed son. Vegeta's gets an important moment of rage when his son (whom he has mocked and ignored) gets killed by Cell, showing that despite his cold, standoffish persona, there is yet hope for redemption. The next seven years changed him drastically, without Goku to challenge he finds genuine love for his family, spends more time with them than Goku has since Gohan was born and truly settles down. When Goku comes back for a day vegeta has a little relapse to his old self, desperate to prove his superiority and remove himself from Goku's shadow, he kills, he has badass speeches all over the place, overthrows his own enslaved mind through sheer will and eventually tells his son he is proud of him before self destructing in an attempt to destroy Majin Buu and protect his loved ones...even Kakarot. Why is this so significant you ask when Goku has sacrificed himself before? Well for one simple reason, Vegeta knew he would go to hell, Piccolo confirmed it, Vegeta would lose his body forever and suffer and yet Vegeta still gave his life, Goku knew he was going to heaven, to train with Gods and millennia old warriors, he was so psyched he barely cared that he wouldn't see Chi Chi and Gohan anymore. During the fight with Kid Buu, Vegeta admits that Goku is a better fighter than him and came up with the plan to destroy Buu, freeing himself from the pressure of being the best and becoming a true hero. The tragedy of Vegeta in my opinion is far more interesting than Goku's story. The most tragic thing being that Vegeta could have been the strongest, it was his attitude that held him back, not his natural potential. His pride, his most important, cherished feature created barriers in front of him. Just think about it, as a child he became arrogant because he was so strong, he was never challenged, whilst Goku was getting his arse kicked by humans. Goku had many teachers instructing him on balance and effective techniques, even meditation. He was trained by Gods and mastered Kaio Ken allowing him to amplify his base far beyond what it should have been, the Spirit Bomb and Instant Transmission. he had the gravity machine before Vegeta plus a bag of sensu beans to maximise his 'gains', whereas Vegeta trained to exhaustion in the gravity room, to the point where he couldn't destroy a small meteor, recovery is important as we know from pumping iron! Goku opted for the more effective Full Power Super Saiyan in his training in the Room of Spirit and Time, naturally Vegeta's pride would not let him copy Goku. Plus Goku trained with Gohan (the most powerful non-fused character) which upped Goku's game, whereas Vegeta refused to train with Trunks. Then goku spent seven years training with Gods and warriors in Other World, with no need to eat or sleep or poop. Goku said himself it was easier to push his power up without a physical body, allowing him to achieve Super Saiyan 3 whilst Vegeta was restricted on Earth. Goku and Vegeta is obviously a story of nature versus nurture, Goku's nurturing allowed him to surpass Vegeta's natural superior power. Something that Vegeta himself tragically never understood. |
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| * Ketchup Revenge | Jul 22 2014, 11:49 PM Post #2 |
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
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Since your post is so long, I must admit that I simply skimmed through. However, I agree with most of the points you made. I do see Vegeta as a deeper character than Goku simply because his story was tragic and he was flawed. Goku himself has been pretty much the same character from his introduction, to the time he leaves us at the end of the manga. Which you think he would've developed a little being that he is the main character. However, about the Super Saiyan 3 thing, Super Saiyan 3 isn't all it's hyped up to be. The form uses far too much ki to be of any real use, therefore I've always thought of Vegeta not being SSj3 as fine. He opted out of using Grade 3 (Ultra) as suggested by future Trunks, because of the flaws. I can't see him deciding any different for Super Saiyan 3, regardless if he had it or not. Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Jul 22 2014, 11:52 PM.
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Jul 23 2014, 12:06 AM Post #3 |
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Honestly I can't read the whole thing right now it's too long sorry. But I will say that I agree on some of the stuff you wrote I think something people have to realize though is that not everyone can completely change. Goku is a good example of that. He changed a little but not that much |
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| Hurry My Curry | Jul 23 2014, 01:58 AM Post #4 |
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Master Troll
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Sorry, I don't read essays. The only reason I don't really like Vegeta is the reason he turned Majin for. That killed his character to me. |
| Miles for mod | |
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| Mike XL | Jul 23 2014, 02:17 AM Post #5 |
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It was the opposite for me, when I was younger I liked Vegeta more, as I got older, I preferred Goku. I enjoy Gokus humor, simplistic nature, and honesty. As far as Vegeta goes, I always preferred Piccolo as the stern and serious badass. Edited by Mike XL, Jul 23 2014, 02:18 AM.
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| + Clearin | Jul 23 2014, 02:28 AM Post #6 |
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Kind of the same with me, except I never liked Vegeta more than Goku, but when I turned about 16 he was knocked off my top 10 list. I used to just like him cos he's the typical "badass" character that kids love, which is also why I liked Broly. Vegeta is definitely one of the most developed characters in DBZ (not that it's saying much) but people use this as the reason he's the best for some reason. Character development by itself doesn't automatically make a character better, which seems to be what the OP is stating. I liked Goku at the start of the story, I liked him in the middle, and at the end, though his Boo saga mistakes did make him a bit less likeable. With Vegeta I thought he was an "okay" villain, then I didn't like him all that much in the Freeza, Cell and start of the Boo saga because the entire middle portion of the development was just frustrating to watch at times. Vegeta is a deep character (at least for DB) but many of those "layers" aren't good ones, whereas Goku is simple, his only layer is good. That makes Goku consistently more good imo than Vegeta who shares good and bad traits. |
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| lazerbem | Jul 23 2014, 03:17 AM Post #7 |
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You make a fair point about him being developed...but in my case, I find him annoying because he's such a dumbass and constantly screws himself over. He gets owned more than Krillin, tbh. I'll let Zarbon transform! I'll let Freeza transform, twice! I'll let Cell transform! I'll let Boo transform! 1. Nearly drowning 2. Getting beaten to the point of tears and dying 3. Getting his spine broken and humiliated 4. Blows himself up and ends up doing nothing of note |
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| SSJ | Jul 23 2014, 03:21 AM Post #8 |
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Goku was better as a child when he wasn't afraid to kill. But I agree with your post for the most part. |
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| POOHEAD189 | Jul 23 2014, 03:25 AM Post #9 |
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Vegeta is a cool character, imo. Even through the criticisms I like him. But I love Goku more, and I think Vegeta's character development took a little too long. Tien and Piccolo had more believable redemptions imo. 3 years and 5 years are a good amount of time to switch viewpoints. Over a dozen is just being dense.
Edited by POOHEAD189, Jul 23 2014, 03:26 AM.
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| Tha gaol agam ort. <3 | |
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| + Yusuke | Jul 23 2014, 04:56 AM Post #10 |
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Sorry, that post was huge lol. I just skimmed through it. I'm not a big fan of Vegeta as I used to as a kid. Mainly it's because of his flip-flopping. In the Cell Arc, he finally mellows down and admits that Goku is superior to him, respects his Son, and starts to cherish his life on Earth. Then the Buu Saga happens and suddenly that whole process gets rebooted and we see Cell Arc Vegeta 2.0. People can argue Goku is an under-developed character and yada yada but at least he stays somewhat consistent as a character and doesn't go reboot mode out of the blue. He might do some questionable things but he is a Saiyan after all, that's to be expected. |
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| superperfectnerd | Jul 23 2014, 01:21 PM Post #11 |
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All of the times Vegeta has let somebody power up have been mirrored by Goku. The only difference is that Goku just happens not to lose, the attitude is still the same. Goku let Freeza reach 100%, Goku opted to not use the Dragonballs to find Gero before the androids were a threat, Goku fought Vegeta and gave his energy to Buu rather than assisting Gohan or using ssj3 to end the fight with Vegeta and take less damage. Also, every fight he's in he never goes all out straight away to end a threat. He always plays around. Vegeta had a miserable life, so becoming good is more impressive for him. He CHOSE redemption. Goku just got brain damage. |
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| lazerbem | Jul 24 2014, 12:12 AM Post #12 |
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1. Goku was in the middle of an SSJ transformation that clouded his judgement 2. He did this out of kindness 3. Again, because he's too nice to Vegeta Vegeta lets people power up to blow up his ego, Goku does it for reasons of kindness or not being in his right mind. And if you want to talk about miserable lives, Vegeta was spoiled compared to Gohan's childhood |
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| Hurry My Curry | Jul 24 2014, 02:38 AM Post #13 |
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Master Troll
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Vegeta takes way too much crap for not disposing of villains when he can. I was cool with Vegeta until I found out why he became Majin, tbh. |
| Miles for mod | |
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| TheACE | Jul 24 2014, 02:56 AM Post #14 |
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The Last GT Fighter
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You know Super Perfect? I write essays too lol (I'm kinda known for it) and I read yours. We're gonna have to collab sometime. Now personally I don't think that Vegeta is really that much more interesting than Goku, I'd actually say they rival each other as developed characters too, just where Vegeta's flaws are exaggerated Goku's are subtle and Goku's perfection is exaggerated while Vegeta's is downplayed. They fill in each other's gaps, really make good foils and are hands down Anime icons. I've written extensive articles on both characters before and this isn't my OP so I won't do it again. While I wouldn't say Vegeta is better or more interesting, I definetly think you're analysis is spot on, and definetly worth of Dragonball Dao |
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| Hurry My Curry | Jul 24 2014, 02:57 AM Post #15 |
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Master Troll
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Plus one to Vegeta for having the hotter wife. Edit - sorry plus 20. Edited by Hurry My Curry, Jul 24 2014, 02:57 AM.
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| Miles for mod | |
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