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Piccolo - Weighted or not?
Topic Started: Jul 21 2014, 04:29 AM (2,682 Views)
p123
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So do we all agree that Piccolo's removing the cape and turban is a sign of him increasing his power and speed?
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p123
Jul 21 2014, 07:53 PM
So do we all agree that Piccolo's removing the cape and turban is a sign of him increasing his power and speed?
Speed, yes. Power, nope. >_>

p123
Jul 21 2014, 07:29 PM
With Piccolo, we do get two different suggestions of power.

Weighted Piccolo - Rivaling 17 and 18
UnWeighted Piccolo- Equal with 17

I think that alone shows that the weights at least give some minor boost.
Except that he powers up post removal of weights and pre battle.

EDIT: I like the Turban argument... though we all know the "real" reason is that drawing a bald head is easier/more efficient than drawing one with a detailed turban on it.
Edited by Vertical, Jul 21 2014, 08:21 PM.
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p123
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Why only speed and not power? We've seen power increase from the removal of weights before.
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Victorious
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Why wasn't Piccolo weighted at the 23rd Budokai?

Kami was in his realm when they fought...when Piccolo fights Goku it's as if they're on an entirely different league than Kami and Kami says he can't even keep up with his devine godly eyes. Now Shin/Kami wasnt having that kind of trouble with weighted Piccolo.


And yes, Kamiccolo vs #17 is stronger than Kamiccolo vs IPC initial....so unless you think he was suppressed vs IPC initial he got a power up.
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p123
Jul 21 2014, 08:23 PM
Why only speed and not power? We've seen power increase from the removal of weights before.

Vertical
Jul 21 2014, 05:57 AM
Emmeth
Jul 21 2014, 04:50 AM
If it doesn't decrease the power level, at the very least it decreases fighting capabilities.
Then perhaps the one and only display of it effecting power level could be written off as a coincidence of process.

Something like:
[Weighted] Goku @ Radtiz = [Resting/Casual/Strolling Down the Beach] Goku
[Unweighted] Goku @ Raditz = [Ready to fight] Goku

Or whatever you refer to those states as.

...if you can understand the idea I'm getting at without me going into more detail.

Vertical
Jul 21 2014, 06:51 AM
Emmeth
Jul 21 2014, 06:00 AM
Happened in the Freeza fight too.

Piccolo (Unweighted) > 2nd Form Freeza (FP) > Piccolo (Weighted) > 2nd Form Freeza (Initial)
No one notes an increase in power though. He removes the weights and is less hindered... but his power may not have changed at all.

Vertical
Jul 21 2014, 08:16 AM
Well, the reason I was bringing it up is because if we can agree to the idea that weighted clothing has no effect on power... but, whether weighted or not, Piccolo's white clothing can be a hindrance (specifically that badass cape - see Goten/Trunks vs 18)...

Weighted training is still shown to be effective at high levels (Goku pre Buu Arc tournament). So you could claim that, at this point in the series... his weights should be so incredible it would be strange not to show them hitting the ground, or to see a reaction when they were dropped pre-17... OR you could argue that, he always uses weighted clothing so making note of it would be redundant.

The point is, I believe it could go either way but because the status quo up until that point has been to make note of his clothing being weighted... you may have to find a middle ground... such as that they were still weighted but not dramatically so.


Either that... or you go against the point I was discussing earlier and simply state that because no power changes are noted other than the one versus Raditz, he never used weighted clothing post-Raditz.


So many choices :o_O:
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Victorious
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Unless you think the fighter was previously off balance, logic should dictate that an increase in speed warrants an increase in power/ki. Or else they're just pulling their speed out of their a*** with no source for the increase.
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Victorious
Jul 21 2014, 08:30 PM
Unless you think the fighter was previously off balance, logic should dictate that an increase in speed warrants an increase in power/ki. Or else they're just pulling their speed out of their a*** with no source for the increase.
Or, they're just as strong as they were with the weights on... but now they aren't lugging around the weights :unsure:
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Victorious
Jul 21 2014, 08:24 PM
Why wasn't Piccolo weighted at the 23rd Budokai?

Kami was in his realm when they fought...when Piccolo fights Goku it's as if they're on an entirely different league than Kami and Kami says he can't even keep up with his devine godly eyes. Now Shin/Kami wasnt having that kind of trouble with weighted Piccolo.
Even if he did wear weights, Piccolo held back. After he takes off his cape, the initial fight between he and Goku was basically a warmup, something which (as far as I can recall, at least, I could be wrong), surprised Goku's friends, meaning that his initial strength there is at least the same as what he used against Shen. His strength later on was greater, but in both instances he had no cape.
Victorious
Jul 21 2014, 08:30 PM
Unless you think the fighter was previously off balance, logic should dictate that an increase in speed warrants an increase in power/ki. Or else they're just pulling their speed out of their a*** with no source for the increase.
Vertical ain't disagreeing with the idea that someone without weights > someone with weights. It's the specifics regarding chi output he's concerned about...
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p123
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Yea considering that Goku and Piccolo just take off the weights and get stronger, I don't believe you. Weights suppress ki, that's what's implied.

Same for Goku vs Tien at the 23rd Budokai.

What you are suggesting is that Goku could have tapped into a level of power greatly superior to Tien while he had his weights on. I don't think the story follows that narrative at all.
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Victorious
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Vertical
Jul 21 2014, 08:31 PM
Victorious
Jul 21 2014, 08:30 PM
Unless you think the fighter was previously off balance, logic should dictate that an increase in speed warrants an increase in power/ki. Or else they're just pulling their speed out of their a*** with no source for the increase.
Or, they're just as strong as they were with the weights on... but now they aren't lugging around the weights :unsure:
So basically what you're saying was previously when they were weighted their speed did not match their strength/ki? right? If weighted you think their ki was 100, then their speed was 80..they take off the weights and their ki/power stays at 100 and their speed goes up to 100. I can agree with that.

What I wouldn't agree with is if you were to say their ki is 100 with weights, their speed without weights goes up to is 110 surpassing their ki and their ki stays at 100. I wouldnt agree with that at all. That means there is no real source for their increased speed.

Although I view the weight removal as both a speed and power increase, as shown by Piccolo and Goku vs Raditz....if their ki was 100 before, their weighted speed level would be probably 100. then they take the weights off and their ki goes up to 120 and their speed goes up to 120. Something like that. Because they need to have an actual source for their speed IMO.


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p123
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Vic, picture Goku Weighted one shotting Tien, I just don't see it being implied at all. Weights supress total ki. It doesn't make sense, but that's the story.
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Victorious
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p123
Jul 21 2014, 08:44 PM
Vic, picture Goku Weighted one shotting Tien, I just don't see it being implied at all. Weights supress total ki. It doesn't make sense, but that's the story.
Well of course they do, we actually have scouter numbers for that.

Piccolo weighted 334, unweighted 408. He got stronger too.
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Kyouks
Jul 21 2014, 08:38 PM
Victorious
Jul 21 2014, 08:30 PM
Unless you think the fighter was previously off balance, logic should dictate that an increase in speed warrants an increase in power/ki. Or else they're just pulling their speed out of their a*** with no source for the increase.
Vertical ain't disagreeing with the idea that someone without weights > someone with weights. It's the specifics regarding chi output he's concerned about...
Yea, sorry if I'm not being clear on this.

Even though I'm arguing that their overall strength doesn't change, their power output clearly can... because they can now move/attack/hit faster... their hits are automatically more powerful... even with the same power behind them.



p123
Jul 21 2014, 08:38 PM
Yea considering that Goku and Piccolo just take off the weights and get stronger, I don't believe you. Weights suppress ki, that's what's implied.
Or perhaps scouters don't simply measure Ki output. (Or whatever I said in my other post... regarding the varying states of a persons' Ki)

p123
Jul 21 2014, 08:38 PM
Same for Goku vs Tien at the 23rd Budokai.

What you are suggesting is that Goku could have tapped into a level of power greatly superior to Tien while he had his weights on. I don't think the story follows that narrative at all.
Not quite, as I've tried to clarify in reply to Kyouks.


EDIT: @Vic - Weighted Actual: 100/80, Weighted Scouter: 80 or 90 or something, Free Actual: 100/100, Free Scouter: 100

Something like that maybe.
Edited by Vertical, Jul 21 2014, 08:51 PM.
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Victorious
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OFF TOPIC - I can't believe the vaginal moderators here closed down the Kamicolo Cell Games thread..what's the point of that. It's almost like politically correct suffocation in this forum.



Ohh yeah there's filler arguments for weights increasing power as well. Remember Pikkon. Unless you think Pikkon fighting base Goku is as strong at SSJ Goku, lol.
Edited by Victorious, Jul 21 2014, 08:52 PM.
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Victorious
Jul 21 2014, 08:51 PM
OFF TOPIC - I can't believe the vaginal moderators here closed down the Kamicolo Cell Games thread..what's the point of that. It's almost like politically correct suffocation in this forum.
I don't think the conversation itself was much of a factor and more the way it was being conducted (constant infringements of, what I would consider, minor rules)... as opposed to a place like Neo where you can't even start a Gotenks topic without tiptoeing around certain mods.

EDIT: Not bad mouthing Neo as I frequently find myself lurking there. Not bad mouthing the mods either. Just making a comparison to how certain things are dealt with.

Victorious
Jul 21 2014, 08:51 PM
Ohh yeah there's filler arguments for weights increasing power as well. Remember Pikkon. Unless you think Pikkon fighting base Goku is as strong at SSJ Goku, lol.
Meh, filler.

Edited by Vertical, Jul 21 2014, 08:56 PM.
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