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- Feminism: What it is and what it is not
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| Feminism: What it is and what it is not | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 21 2014, 01:48 AM (1,748 Views) | |
| Copy_Ninja | Jul 21 2014, 01:48 AM Post #1 |
Novacane for the pain
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Ah feminism. In the last couple of years it's become quite the big topic online. As you might expect, it has both a vocal support and a vocal opposition. I always found it strange that people would be so opposed to it. I mean, it's about equality. Why would people not want that again? It doesn't hurt men for women to stand on equal footing. But if you look at what people are complaining about you see what the problem is. Tumblr. Okay that's not really fair, Tumblr in itself is not to blame, but the wave of radical feminism and social justice warrior mentality that's become associated with the site is the problem. Sure, it was around before Tumblr but the popularity of the site has exposed more people to it and help it spread. Now, the issue here is that people are associating these radical views with all feminism, which is wrong. That's not what feminism is. They are a minority. A vocal minority I grant you but a minority none the less. Yet, because they shout the loudest and get a lot of attention because they do something stupid, that's what people associate feminism with. I'm basically going to differentiate between the "Tumblrisms" and what the actual message from feminism is. "Check Your Privilege" How Tumblr uses it: Basically saying "you're a man, check your privilege" as a way of saying that a man can't have an opinion so you need to shut up and agree with them. What it actually is: Basically, as men we have a certain point of view. When you hear that you're in an "unfair" position, the natural reaction is going to be to defend yourself against a perceived attack and judge things from that perspective. Basically, check your privilige is just a way of saying that you should recognise that and try to view things from a more neutral point of view first. Not an unreasonable request (though I do think the actual phrase has lost all effectiveness in this sense as it's become synonymous with the above). "Rape Culture" How Tumblr uses it: All men are rapists, we need to teach men not to rape, OMG by looking at me this way you are ACTUALLY raping me!!!!1!!! What it actually is: Again I don't like the phrase but I agree with the premise. It's mostly to do with victim blaming. Things like saying a girl wearing certain clothing is "asking for it" or "leading a guy on" or implying that a woman getting drunk opened herself up to getting raped. Look, the only person to blame for a rape is the rapist. That's it, you can't blame the victim for being a victim. This should be common sense but this sort of attitude arises more often than you'd think and why the phrase is that we have a "rape culture." "The Wage Gap" What Tumblr thinks it is: OMG men and women do the same work but men get paid more for it! We need to take the money from the men and give it to the women! What it actually is: Equal work for equal pay is generally a thing. The wage gap isn't what it implies at first. Men and women do get paid the same for the same work, it's just that men tend to have the more high paying job. Why is that? Well, cultural norms dictate that men go out and have a career and women stay at home or have part time jobs to supplement that. Girls aren't encouraged enough to go in to the fields that make more money the same way boys are. Though I also think this will change over the next 20 years. By that time the younger people of today will be in positions of power in big companies and the like, so you'd hope they'd be more accepting of that kind of change. We'll see how that goes but it is a legitimate problem. That's just three examples but hopefully you get my point. I have another other issue to address as well. These radicals are way too aggressive with going about things. Being aggressive towards men is going to turn them off the message no matter what it is. This is why I think #YesAllWomen was a poor move in all honesty. I totally get the message and agree with a lot of it, but the passive aggressive undertones of a lot of those tweets made guys feel like they were being attacked. You aren't going to get guys onside like that. That's not to mention the small minority that display blatant misandry, which again gets an undue amount of attention. Basically, yes, there are idiots within the movement. Of course there are, they exist in every movement and always will. But it needs to be recognised that they are a minority and those views do not represent feminism as a whole. Discuss. |
 We'll never be those kids again
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| + Havoc_Wreaker | Jul 21 2014, 02:38 AM Post #2 |
Popcorn
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pretty sure wage gap exists wrote a paper on feminism something soothing for some year..... i cant be bothered to find my paper its in some pile but there is definitely a wage gap i have a bunch of stats from my text book ill post them tomorrow if i can find it but the rest seems good i read it over quick do |
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| Copy_Ninja | Jul 21 2014, 03:00 AM Post #3 |
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Novacane for the pain
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Well paying lower wages to women for doing the same work is illegal under federal legislation in the United States and I know Australia has legislation to the same effect. So in a situation where a man and a woman are in the same role, the woman legally cannot be paid less. Though now I think about it, the only place where that might not be true is higher up in companies where you negotiate your own contract rather than be given a set rate, so you can have people in the same office with different scales of pay. There would be probably be active discrimination there I'd imagine, what with most CEO's and such being baby boomers who have that mentality. Though that doesn't apply in most positions where there's a set salary for a role. The majority of the gap exists because women are usually given lower paying jobs. The point is that the focus should be on the cultural issues surrounding why women are pushed in to those lower jobs or the glass ceiling that exists in the corporate world preventing promotion to higher paying roles. |
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We'll never be those kids again
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| + Havoc_Wreaker | Jul 21 2014, 03:05 AM Post #4 |
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Popcorn
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my stats are Canadian BUT im sure it can be found/seen elsewhere not only high paying jobs but lower as well my memory is a bit foggy and i may be spouting nonsense atm plus i am a tad buzzed serious talk ill leave till morning lol |
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| Copy_Ninja | Jul 21 2014, 03:12 AM Post #5 |
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Novacane for the pain
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Hrrrm, well if anyone is in a wage job and they're getting paid less for the same job then they can sue under that legislation. I find it incredible that people don't know their own rights. |
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We'll never be those kids again
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| Jet | Jul 21 2014, 04:12 AM Post #6 |
Ruka is a dude
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A big portion (not a vocal minority) in this "feminist movement" only care about pro-female stuff. I don't see how that's fighting for equality when seemingly they have no intention of listening to the problems of both genders. Sexist people hiding under the guise of "equality" is far too common these days in my opinion. |
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| Rogafufuken | Jul 21 2014, 04:12 AM Post #7 |
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Honestly the majority of feminists (the non-radical feminists) are just humanists/eglatarianists/equalists, since they usually believe in equal rights for all people. Since the radical feminists on Tumblr have tarnished the term "feminists" with the "End Fathers Day" and "Kill all Men" "movements" I think that they should just take up one of those names above. I don't have much else to say. |
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Jul 21 2014, 05:29 AM Post #8 |
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I label myself a feminist in an attempt to counteract the radical feminist movement actually, and to defend what feminism should be. There's no need to switch labels just because there are some annoying radicals running about. I try not to argue about this topic online anymore because it seems like people either take up a "men's rights" stance and completely bash feminism, refuse to accept facts, or get all radical feminazi on me. It's a super annoying topic nowadays. |
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| Rogafufuken | Jul 21 2014, 05:41 AM Post #9 |
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I can respect that. Edited by Rogafufuken, Jul 21 2014, 05:41 AM.
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| + Ginyu | Jul 21 2014, 10:14 AM Post #10 |
Leve Feyenoord 1!
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Feminism only gets opposed because of pseudo-feminists. Those are just women that hate men and want have all the priviledges men have but not the duties. It's those feminists that are ruining it for everyone. A lot of "feminists" today are not aware for what feminism stads for, they have no idea what feminism actually is. Feminism supports equality, it always has done that and it always will. Every women who claims to be a feminist and proceeds to say all men are evil is stupid and ill-educated. Every man who says feminism doesn't support equality is just as bad educated as those pseudo-feminists. This is how all movements go today on the internet. Both sides have smart and stupid people. The stupid people make the entire movement look bad and the opposition targets the movement by referring to the stupid people. Internet discussions just go in circles Edited by Ginyu, Jul 21 2014, 10:17 AM.
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| * Ketchup Revenge | Jul 21 2014, 02:20 PM Post #11 |
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
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Feminism was a good idea back in the 1950s, but it really doesn't serve much of a purpose now. The only reason it would serve a purpose would be for the inequality in the military that still happens in the US. I myself am a chick, but know for a fact that a wage gap does exist on paper, but the reasons that it exists is simply circumstantial, and not intentional like most feminists highlight. Let me put it into perspective for everyone... Feminists don't look at individual jobs, and simply take the average income for a woman and man over a lifetime and compare the two. The average male income is on average, 22% higher than a woman's. (getting the 78 cents on a dollar thing). A high percentage of jobs in the US and other countries are general labor jobs; and a good chunk of those are are tough labor. These jobs often have a higher wage per hour than lower labor jobs or office jobs, and most women are either unwilling to work that job, or are unable to do it as well as a male candidate. This is the real reason behind the wage gap. Most of it can simply be attributed to the general jobs that women take or get hired for, which are lower labor or office jobs. If a construction company owner has the option of hiring either a male or female candidate for a field job, there's a 90% chance that the company owner is going to hire the male candidate simply because the male candidate is more likely to be able to do physical labor that the female candidate can't. If the owner does hire the female candidate, it will most likely be for an office job; which doesn't pay as high as a field job (and shouldn't). Not to mention that women themselves often take time off when they have babies. On average, if they do get paid, they only make up to about 60% of what they make when they actually work. That's up to 3 months of only making $6 instead of $10 per hour. And some women do this a few times in their lives. Feminism has gone the way of Unions, Communism and other concepts that started off as great ideas. They're now as bad as the thing they were formed to oppose; and pretty much the exact same thing as the thing they were formed to oppose. Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Jul 21 2014, 02:23 PM.
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Jul 21 2014, 08:09 PM Post #12 |
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Feminism also supports gay rights and men's rights issues fundamentally, but radical feminists apparently aren't aware of this. |
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| Return Of Imjustsaiyanbro | Jul 22 2014, 01:23 PM Post #13 |
Elder
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Based on some memes and stuff I saw on my facebook newsfeed, I feared there was going to be a war on feminism on the internet. I feel a lot of feminists are slightly radical and not as liberal as some of them like to claim they are. There are still plenty of good Women's Rights Advocates but a few nuts have damaged the perception many people have of feminist. This might not be a great comparison but it's like the Black Panthers: The original leaders were pushing for black empowerment and black pride. A few generations later and it developed into somewhat of a hate group. |
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STRAIGHT OUTTA NAMEK I miss my cocoa butter kisses. Which one of these mods tryna let me bust? Spoiler: click to toggle Spoiler: click to toggle
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| Meowth | Jul 27 2014, 09:26 PM Post #14 |
=._.=
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The wage gap is a thing, I don't believe it is as much of an issue for lower paid jobs, minimum wage or entry level admin jobs, but when you start getting higher up the chain, the gap is there. There is also, still, in some cases some discrimination based on maternity leave, though men can suffer there as well. "Rape culture" as the word puts it is something to worry about, something that needs addressing, there are legitimate concerns that are raised. Not just victim blaming, but people actively mocking and making fun of the victim. There was a piece in the news about this a few days ago, it's disgusting. There are many issues not addressed as well, when a women sleeps around, she's a slut, when a man does it, he's a stud or something. It's frowned upon for women but men get prised for doing the same thing. It should be equal, either both are sluts or both are heros, not one or the other. |
 
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| Mihawk | Jul 27 2014, 09:41 PM Post #15 |
 
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It exists due to issues like maternal leave and other biological issues leading to lower bonuses and raises. There's no company that actually pays a woman less than a man. "Rape culture" exists both ways. Men have been expelled or completely outcast from colleges simply based on the word of a trusted female. The other street of victim blaming is a serious issue as well. |
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