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The Nameless Namek's placement at Cell Games
Topic Started: Jul 20 2014, 03:32 AM (16,098 Views)
Alex D. Boss
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Right.

Where would Piccolo stand?

After Goku counters Piccolo's placement, we can see Trunks questioning about Piccolo's usefulness

http://i.imgur.com/mwvHfgy.png

It's not just surprise from Trunks, but an expression of fear. Hence the nervous sweating. Kamiccolo has the same nervous sweat as well.

So what Trunks's reaction telling us? Surprised or feared about Piccolo not being able to fight Cell? I think he was sweating for being nervous, same for Piccolo.

Where would Piccolo stand? I'd put him close to SSJ Trunks CG.

Discuss...


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p123
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The best interpretation I can think of for that whole scenario is...

Piccolo has been in the Rosat for a year trying to get somewhere near Cell's FP. Piccolo thinks that Cell is a bit stronger than what Goku showed when he powered up at Korin's Place. That level of power far surpassed anything else shown, so Piccolo assumes it's Goku's full power. I mean, Cell and Goku can't be much stronger than that? Can they? Over the course of the year Piccolo starts questioning if that was even Goku's full power. Piccolo pushes himself to his limits and finally is able to surpass Goku's power shown from before. But was it all for nothing? Knowing Goku, he probably had way more in the tank huh? Piccolo goes ahead and assumes that Goku has a lot more in the tank, but he's hoping Goku doesn't. Why? Because Goku's power determines Cell's power. If Piccolo can be close to Goku, who's close to Cell, it provides Piccolo with more ease because when in doubt they can all team up and kill Cell if need be. If Cell is a point beyond where Piccolo is useful, it's a helpless scenario that keeps Piccolo at Cell's mercy.

Piccolo exits the Rosat, impressed with his gains, but all too aware of the elephant in the room. Is Cell and Goku really that much stronger? Trunks goes all fanboy for Piccolo's new power. Holy crap Piccolo! You are nearly as strong as Goku! Piccolo is wearing weights now and his power a bit suppressed. Little does Trunks know that Piccolo actually surpassed Goku marginally, but little does Trunks know that it might not have been anywhere close to Goku's actual ability.

Out of nowhere, Goku arrives at the Rosat. Goku comments on Piccolo's amazing newfound power and Piccolo finally sees the opportunity for the moment of truth. Goku, be straight up with me, I've grown very powerful, I have nearly matched the power you displayed before, but tell me, Goku, the power you displayed before is nothing compared to your real power huh? Am I right? Piccolo knows the answer, but he still has hope. Maybe he was wrong, maybe Goku showed us everything and that was his total power. Maybe Cell isn't that far off from him and he can challenge Cell and perhaps win. Maybe if Cell is even a bit stronger they can team up and save the Earth. Goku confirms Piccolo's suspicions and makes Piccolo feel foolish for even asking. Piccolo knows he should have known better. He shouldn't had wavered in his doubts about his own chances, but he's content with his fate.

Poor Trunks had no idea what was happening in all of this and he is shockingly brought up to speed. Piccolo and Goku's power shown before greatly dwarf his own, including his suped up Super Powerful Useless power. Trunks in that moment feels true fear of the unknown. Just how monstrous is Cell!

Trunks trains long and hard and is able to surpass Goku's power he displayed by a solid margin, but he is haunted by how nonchalant Goku treated Goku's power and his own from before. Trunks knows it's hopeless for his own power to be a true factor, but he tried his best.
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+ Pyrus
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Going with midway between base and Super Saiyan, so about half as strong as Vegeta/Trunks. Fine by me.
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p123
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Pyrus you just witnessed the most destructive post of all time on the issue. Perhaps you should read it one more time.
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POOHEAD189
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Piccolo was stronger than both Trunks and Vegeta (pre RoSaT) combined when he entered, so him leaving the time chamber and not at least being above Semi Perfect Cell and close to ASSJ 's is just not logical Imo.
Tha gaol agam ort. <3
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p123
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Agreed Poohead ( lol ) , Piccolo is now the Nameless Namek, the SUPER NAMEK, he's a beast. No reason he can't blow out Post Rosat 1 Vegeta and Trunks, especially considering they didn't train properly.

Goku, Gohan and Piccolo all did training that brought them to their maximum potential. Vegeta and Trunks failed training didn't bring them anywhere close.


Nameless Namek's Full Potential >> Vegeta and Trunks non full potential.

Just another destructive post to put that issue to bed.
Edited by p123, Jul 20 2014, 05:49 AM.
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SSJ
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I think the context says it all. Piccolo sees Vegeta and Trunks get humiliated, and immediately decides to go to the RoSaT. He thinks he can become at the very least stronger than those two. After his training, Goku even compliments him, almost confirming that Piccolo succeeded. Piccolo is a pretty intuitive guy, so he knows that Cell nor Goku have shown their full power yet, so he speculates that he is still fodder to Cell. Goku agrees. The context shows that Piccolo became stronger than the previous strongest fighters.
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POOHEAD189
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But then again what was Piccolo's excuse for not being mentioned when the Cell Jr.s attacked? Wasn't only the ASSJ able to hold their own?
Tha gaol agam ort. <3
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SSJ
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Piccolo can be around 50% Goku, but still be weak to SSJ Vegeta and Trunks.

Goku: 100
Vegeta: 75
Trunks: 70
Piccolo: 50

That's a huge gap right there between Piccolo and the Saiyans. Hence why he didn't do quite as well against the Juniors.
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CheckMateIzGod
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He must be atleast equal to 40 or 50% of goku's full power/maxed out power.Since he has witnessed trunks,vegeta and goku's (50%) power,his objective would be to atleast reach that level first and then if possible,he would try to surpass it.

I believe that he is atleast 45 or 50% goku to put it at the very least.I personally keep him equal to 60% goku maxed out.
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p123
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Very impressive Ssj2, I don't even need to post on the issue here. Agreed completely. I feel like someone finally gets it. Although the numbers I feel are a bit different.



Goku 100
Cell Junior 66-68
Vegeta 66
Trunks 62-64
Piccolo 55


I think it's best to keep Vegeta and Trunks as low as possible based on their general reactions to Cell and Goku as well as


Cell >= Goku > Cell ( Post Regen ) ~ Goku ( Post KHH ) > Cell ( Post Barrier ) > The rest of the Z Team


Goku and Cell's fight has cost them both quite a bit of power, yet they stayed ahead until Goku quit. Cell was still stronger than Vegeta and Co. even after Goku quit. The power difference should be as massive as possible.

Cell / Goku >>> Vegeta > 50% Goku

Vegeta merely needs to be stronger than someone who probably can beat 50% Goku.


Vegeta 66
Cell Expected 55-60
Goku 50

Remember, if Vegeta is 66, and Goku is 50, that is a massive, massive gap. Goku would only be 75% of Vegeta. That's Cui vs Vegeta, that's KKx3 Goku vs Vegeta, that's Reecome vs Vegeta. Huge, tremendous gap. That's plenty enough for Vegeta to be confident.
Edited by p123, Jul 20 2014, 06:09 AM.
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SSJ
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True, true. Though you should keep in mind an important quote from the Boo arc. Vegeta claimed that gap between them didn't change over the seven years, and I believe that Pre-Majin Vegeta was only minimally weaker than Kid Gohan.

Goku Boo: 110-115
Gohan Cell: 100
Burst Goku: 98
Pre-Majin Vegeta: 95

That's a 1.15-1.21x gap between Goku and Vegeta there. We don't have to take it exactly literally, but it should still be taken seriously. That's where I get the 1.25x difference between them in the Cell arc from.
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p123
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Vegeta is not referring to specifically the Cell Games in the speech. He's speaking about Goku in general. Goku surpassed him, even saved his life. No matter what he does he can't close the gap.

He references this when he witnesses 50% Goku as well, I think I've caught up and he widens the gap !

I definitely think Vegeta's statements in the Buu Saga are reflective of Vegeta's life as a whole since he's met Goku.

He surpassed Vegeta's power on Earth, which clearly shook Vegeta. He immediately decided life is not worth living if another Saiyan is stronger and attempts to destroy the Earth knowing full well he would die as well. Vegeta is a complete psychopath. His only goal in life for years is to kill Goku. Even after all he's done for Vegeta, it doesn't matter. Vegeta doesn't care nearly as much about other non Saiyans surpassing him. But for some reason a low class warrior surpassing his royal power eats away at him and he can't let it go.

The gaps don't have to be the same, they could, but they don't have to be. Regardless, the Buu Saga is not going to change what was already established in the Cell Game. Vegeta is but a mere helpless baby to Goku. 66% is the perfect range for Vegeta. 75% is getting a little too close to being somewhat useful. He's a mere play thing to Goku. Like the Ginyu Force was to Goku. Not like Vegeta was to KKx3 Goku where he could take some hits. He's a nothing imo.


Also I feel your gaps are far too close. Goku and Majin Vegeta are definitive superiors to Kid Gohan and Kid Gohan is a definitive superior to Pre Majin Vegeta.


Goku 100
Kid Gohan 88
Vegeta 77


That's good enough. You could even stretch that a bit farther. Remember, ki sensing gets more and more inaccurate the further you are away from someone's power.

Piccolo shows he is a little off with only merely assuming Goku can defeat Fat Buu as well. Meanwhile Goku 100% knows that Fat Buu is toast if he wanted.

Piccolo is only going to be but so accurate, he's greatly weaker than Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3, so he's not going to be as accurate as someone on that level.
Edited by p123, Jul 20 2014, 06:35 AM.
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SSJ
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I disagree that 75% is somewhat useful! but I agree with your post. I'd say 68-70% maximum.
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p123
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Vegeta vs Reecome, Vegeta vs KKx3 Goku.

Show that 75% is completely outclassed, but the stronger fighter still needs to work and the weaker fighter can take a couple of shots.

It's a big difference than the 66% gap that is basically a God vs a child. 75% is someone whooping your a*** horribly to a point you wont' last long at all, but you can take a few shots.

66% is god status and you can't do anything.
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