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Alex's PoV about USSJ Trunks / MSSJ Goku 50%
Topic Started: Jul 20 2014, 01:49 AM (2,008 Views)
Hurry My Curry
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Master Troll

Hmm I suppose if you looked at it from a real life standpoint, it makes sense. Say you're a really skinny guy and you want to get stronger and get a six pack to impress the ladies, cause all you've currently got is blazing speed. If you work and get those biceps, pecs, abs, you gonna gain a ton of weight, but you ain't gonna keep that speed. Thats really the only way I think that makes sense.
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Hurry My Curry
Jul 20 2014, 10:44 AM
Hmm I suppose if you looked at it from a real life standpoint, it makes sense. Say you're a really skinny guy and you want to get stronger and get a six pack to impress the ladies, cause all you've currently got is blazing speed. If you work and get those biceps, pecs, abs, you gonna gain a ton of weight, but you ain't gonna keep that speed. Thats really the only way I think that makes sense.
Sure, but increasing your muscles to a point would increase your speed, right? Stronger muscles would mean that you could put more force into your movements and get a better kick-off from the ground. Disregarding the specifics, which I'm no good at, bigger muscles slowing a fighter down was mentioned explicitly as a disadvantage for USSJ, not ASSJ. There's no indication that the form is complex enough to require constant training like with the Kaioken. Either you have to say that the form has no speed increase at any time, or that the speed increase is just an aspect of the form.
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+ Pyrus
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I go with the latter. It should give a speed and strength boost. Mastered Super Saiyan is simply easier to maintain and use for longer or more intense battles, as in if Goku and Vegeta were at equal levels but in their different forms, Goku would outlast Vegeta in a race to the finish.

Or something.
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Alex D. Boss
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MSSJ is just the same as SSJ with the same multiplier , but only more balanced compared to the USSJ form. Lets say this. When Goku fights Cell, we know that he was below Cell in terms of power, but if he used transformed into a USSJ he would beat Cell let alone his 2nd grade. I think USSJ surpasses the "Super Saiyan wall" without having a controlled balance. So once you master it, you have the capacity for being "SSJ2" instead.
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* Ketchup Revenge
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"

FPSSj is far more efficient than SSjG3, even if they are roughly the same power (give or take).
It's about efficiency, not what's stronger.

They could sense Goku's ease with the level of power that he had, while Trunks was strained with his. Sensing ki isn't only about sensing the size of it. People themselves have individual characteristics with their ki, this is how others can sense whose ki it is, and if the ki is good or evil, etc.

Gohan also suggests that Super Saiyan ki itself has a particular feel to it different than someone's normal ki because he mistook Future Trunks for Goku when Trunks kills Freeza. He explained Trunks's ki as "feeling like dad's that time".

We can only guess that the level of strain or ease with keeping at that size ki can be sensed as well by how the ki behaves.

It's also possible that Krillin can't sense that far ahead. Piccolo was incapable of sensing base Goku's limit during the Freeza arc. He called both Freeza and Goku "Gods".
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Alex D. Boss
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But Roshi can sense from far away very well ^ ?
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p123
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Well let me ask a question. When Roshi goes buff, does his speed increase? What about Cell?

Cell- Such a transformation is nothing...As you can see...What good is a transformation that gives you only brute strength? You were a fool...

Trunks- So that's why Dad chose not to transform this way. He knew this would happen. Cell is right. I...I was an idiot.


Let's see what Goku thinks on the matter...


Goku- Could I beat him like this? No probably not. All this new mass gives me strength, but it kills my speed. All the power in the world won't do any good if I can't hit the guy. This consumes too much energy, too. All in all, regular Super Saiyan is the best. At least I know...


And now we know how Goku feels on the matter.

So out of Roshi, Goku and Cell, it doesn't appear any of them see any sort of speed benefit to getting buffer. Yet Vegeta and Trunks clearly do.

I would think Vegeta found a way to stop at the first level and trained his butt off to keep the speed balanced. Otherwise, Cell wouldn't think it would be such a waste, since it clearly was not for SsjG2.

Put it this way, if they could go Ssjg2 on top of their powers and get the speed boost during the CG, it might have sealed the deal for them.

If you are looking for a logic way to close a loophole and aren't afraid to at least make a small leap of faith, this is the best way.
Edited by p123, Jul 20 2014, 02:17 PM.
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Alex ClownBoss
Jul 20 2014, 01:10 PM
But Roshi can sense from far away very well ^ ?
I won't disagree with you, but I don't recall Roshi ever being able to sense someone's limit or their true power.

He seemed to know that Goku was going to lose against Cell, but he was also watching the fight on TV at the time.
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p123
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Roshi ain't sensing the ki, he's judging the fight. Mostly based on how desperate Goku is and how not desperate Cell is.
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Alex D. Boss
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Roshi could sense Cell 1st form right?
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p123
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Roshi's ki sensing is weird. It's not as advanced as the others imo. He can sense ki, but he can't sense ki like everyone else. Would have to do more research on that.

My point is that Roshi's comments had more to do with how Goku vs Cell the fight was actually playing out rather than from a strictly ki sensing point of view. It's right there in his comments.
Edited by p123, Jul 20 2014, 04:51 PM.
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Alex D. Boss
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Yeah fair point.
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Victorious
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p123
Jul 20 2014, 03:48 AM
I think the group all initially feels 50% Goku is his full power. Piccolo figures out in the Rosat that it probably wasn't and in there conversation Goku confirms that the power he showed earlier was nothing. Trunks picks up on this and is not confident in his power despite surpassing 50% Goku.

Vegeta thinks Trunks opinion on the matter is hogwash and continues to believe in himself, but the doubt creeps up inside him as well.

By the Cell Game, Piccolo, Vegeta and Trunks all expect something like this, of course, Vegeta would never admit it outloud without full proof.


Cell 85
Goku 75
Vegeta 66
Trunks 64
Piccolo 55


When they find out that Goku is 100 and not 75 and they find out Cell is 110 and not 80, they are absolutely flabbergasted.
Yeah I agree

100% Goku >> expected Cell > Expected Goku >>> 50% Goku.

For Kamiccolo and Future Trunks at least.

For Vegeta he I still think expected Goku = 50% Goku



Edited by Victorious, Jul 20 2014, 05:03 PM.
Victorious' fan made Dragon Ball Z Battle Power (Sentō-ryoku) list
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Hurry My Curry
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In Goku's quote, is he still talking about SSjin Gr 2 or Gr 3?, @P123.
Edited by Hurry My Curry, Jul 20 2014, 05:37 PM.
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p123
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Goku doesn't seem to discern any noticeable difference between SsjG2 or 3 having a speed disadvantage.
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