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Alex's PoV about USSJ Trunks / MSSJ Goku 50%
Topic Started: Jul 20 2014, 01:49 AM (2,005 Views)
Alex D. Boss
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Alright. I'm in my best shape as ever to debate like the old days again. This is my 1st PoV of many.

Most of us believe MSSJ Goku 50% > USSJ Trunks based on his reaction "as it would indicate" that his power is surpassed.

But I've been thinking about this, and still want to debate about it:

1) Chapter: 398 (DBZ 204), P7.1-3
Context: everyone gawking at Goku’s full power
Kuririn: “This really is an incredible ki…! It figures he’d outstrip everyone.”

What is Krillin thinking? Why not saying this after 50% MSSJ Goku? Why saying it now?

2) Chapter: 387 (DBZ 193), P1.3, P2.1-3
Trunks: “What you’re about to see now…is my true power!!!”
Cell: “I see…It truly is magnificent power…You easily surpass me…But you can’t win against me like that…Absolutely not…”

It is stated that USSJ Trunks > Cell in terms of power. Cell wasn't noted to increase his power after he fought Trunks, better yet it stayed the same.

3 ) Chapter: 391 (DBZ 197), P10.4-5
Context: After powering up and almost destroying Karin’s tower…
Goku: “That just now was about half power. What do you think?”
Karin: “Half power…?! What a fearsome guy you are…How strong will you become before you’re satisfied…?!”

This is Goku 50% (half power) , and says already that he is no match for Cell , while Trunks was confident to beat the same Cell Goku saw. Was this ever contradicted by Cell?

4) The confidences of Goku and Trunks fighting Cell

Chapter: 390 (DBZ 196), P13.5-6, P14.1-3
Context: After Goku checks out perfect Cell's power
Goku: “…Frankly, I didn’t think he would get so incredible…I don’t have any idea just how strong he could get if he felt like it…I won’t know unless I try, but I think I probably can’t win the way I am now.”

Goku admits that he is no match for Cell at current state.

Chapter: 386 (DBZ 192), P4.4-5
Context: Trunks tells Kuririn he won't need a senzu for his fight with Cell
Trunks: “Because I will definitely win.”
Kuririn: “He’s incredibly confident.”

Chapter: 387 (DBZ 193), P3.5.
Piccolo: “Absolutely incredible power! It’s even greater than Cell’s…! Un-unbelievable…!“

Trunks on the other hand is rather confident to beat Cell. Its probably because his power > Cell's. It just lacks his speed as Cell counters:

Cell: “I see…It truly is magnificent power…You easily surpass me…But you can’t win against me like that…Absolutely not…”

5) Vegeta and Trunks reaction about MSSJ Goku 50% :

Reactions aren't the always the best thing to come up with thinking about power, otherwise you'd think : Base Gotenks pre >> SSJ3 Goku, Goku PL 5000 >> Nappa, Nappa @ Z Senshi >> Initial Vegeta, Super Boo >> Suppressed Ultimate Gohan (who was later implied to be under Super Boo), Full Power Perfect Cell >> SSJ2 Kid Gohan, etc.

Discuss....
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+ Clearin
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Karin: “Hmm… You always ask the most difficult questions… As I said, this is only speculation…but honestly…I’m afraid Cell is still a bit stronger.”

I think Goku's comparison to Cell isn't based on the power he used to fight Trunks. Why would Korin need to speculate if that were the case?
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Alex D. Boss
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Because Goku was already confident for being inferior to "whatever he thinks about his FP" Cell. Goku checks in, Korin speculates, Goku leaves like he knew about Cell's superiority. What does Goku know?
Edited by Alex D. Boss, Jul 20 2014, 02:17 AM.
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p123
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Krillen says that 100% Goku outstrips EVERYONE. If he said outstrips Trunks, sure maybe you got a case. Trunks is old news. Krillen is saying that Goku is the strongest at the Cell Game out of the good guys. Which means Krillen is aware of Piccolo, Trunks and Vegeta's newfound power.

SSJG3 Trunks can't be stronger than 50% Goku because they assume 50% Goku could possibly be his full power.

This wouldn't be possible if 50% Goku was only as strong as Perfect Cell's base power.

After checking Cell out, Goku goes on to say that Cell could get much, much stronger. Trunks is in shock as is the group.

So if the group thinks that FP Cell >>> The Cell they've seen and fought, if 50% Goku wasn't the strongest power shown thus far, no one could ever assume that was Goku's full power.

Goku needs to power up to 50% power and he doesn't have to power up for the warm up.

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Alex D. Boss
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Why was Trunks sweating about Piccolo not being useful against Cell?

Who else thinks besides Trunks that Goku's 50% is at his max?

I think Trunks is a huge problem here.
Edited by Alex D. Boss, Jul 20 2014, 03:25 AM.
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Hurry My Curry
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Master Troll

Quick Question: Do Vegeta and Trunks know that is only half his power when he reveals it?
Miles for mod
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p123
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I think the group all initially feels 50% Goku is his full power. Piccolo figures out in the Rosat that it probably wasn't and in there conversation Goku confirms that the power he showed earlier was nothing. Trunks picks up on this and is not confident in his power despite surpassing 50% Goku.

Vegeta thinks Trunks opinion on the matter is hogwash and continues to believe in himself, but the doubt creeps up inside him as well.

By the Cell Game, Piccolo, Vegeta and Trunks all expect something like this, of course, Vegeta would never admit it outloud without full proof.


Cell 85
Goku 75
Vegeta 66
Trunks 64
Piccolo 55


When they find out that Goku is 100 and not 75 and they find out Cell is 110 and not 80, they are absolutely flabbergasted.
Edited by p123, Jul 20 2014, 03:53 AM.
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Hurry My Curry
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Master Troll

Krillins outstrip quote does it for me personally.
Edited by Hurry My Curry, Jul 20 2014, 05:26 AM.
Miles for mod
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Hurry My Curry
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Master Troll

Piccolo is awfully close to Goku, Trunks, and Vegeta if that's what he's expecting.

Ugh srry for the double post.
Edited by Hurry My Curry, Jul 20 2014, 05:29 AM.
Miles for mod
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POOHEAD189
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I was under the impression that Initial Perfect Cell was weaker than Cell games perfect cell, considering the damage he took from Vegeta and then the damage he took from Goku.
Tha gaol agam ort. <3
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p123
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Yea, Krillen says Goku outstrips Cell Game Piccolo, Vegeta, Trunks. SSJG3 Trunks was irrelevant the moment Goku powered up. Heck, he was irrelevant before that, but in terms as a marker as being the most powerful being shown thus far.
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+ Pyrus
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The buff forms were irrelevant the second Goku came out of the RoSaT. Nobody considered that their full power henceforth (Cell didn't when he went to FP despite being at a power disadvantage).
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p123
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Well SSJG2 is relevant to them. I mean, Post Rosat 1, Vegeta and Trunks power is their SSJG2 power. It's not like they can't do it anymore, it's not like they only count their Super Saiyan forms. But oh you mean in training in the Rosat. THen yes, definitely yes, you clever bastard
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+ Pyrus
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It's debatable whether Grade 2 was still a factor when comparing power. Grade 3 definitely wasn't.
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+ Kyouks
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MSSJ Gohan > SSJG3 Goku

So says I for that is Goku's truest potential

FP Cell > Buff Cell too, it's the only way to make my views work because they have to work like that
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