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Goku with virus vs goku post yardrat
Topic Started: Jul 19 2014, 04:00 PM (1,600 Views)
TheACE
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The Last GT Fighter

Victorious
Jul 21 2014, 12:47 AM
TheACE
Jul 21 2014, 12:43 AM
Victorious
Jul 21 2014, 12:37 AM
Ssj3vegito96
Jul 21 2014, 12:00 AM
So because yamcha, krillin, and tien, who saw yardrat goku and were still surprised, sick goku>post yardrat goku right? What if they were just mesmerized by goku kicking the androids a*** and didn't really pay attention to goku's power level? Tien says goku is "overwhelmingly pushing back" then piccolo mentions goku's power level is lower than it should be
Yes I know Piccolo mentions it's lower than it should be.

But that's the point, Piccolo and Gohan who trained with Goku say that...not the humans.

If he's weaker than Yardrat Goku then they should notice as well.
... So they're specifically going to say, when Goku came back from Yardrat three years ago he was much stronger than what we're seeing rigiht now?
Maybe not that, but they should say

"Hey, Goku should be stronger than this!"


That's basically what Piccolo said.
Right. So that brings us back to square one really.
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Victorious
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TheACE
Jul 21 2014, 12:51 AM
Victorious
Jul 21 2014, 12:47 AM
TheACE
Jul 21 2014, 12:43 AM
Victorious
Jul 21 2014, 12:37 AM
Ssj3vegito96
Jul 21 2014, 12:00 AM
So because yamcha, krillin, and tien, who saw yardrat goku and were still surprised, sick goku>post yardrat goku right? What if they were just mesmerized by goku kicking the androids a*** and didn't really pay attention to goku's power level? Tien says goku is "overwhelmingly pushing back" then piccolo mentions goku's power level is lower than it should be
Yes I know Piccolo mentions it's lower than it should be.

But that's the point, Piccolo and Gohan who trained with Goku say that...not the humans.

If he's weaker than Yardrat Goku then they should notice as well.
... So they're specifically going to say, when Goku came back from Yardrat three years ago he was much stronger than what we're seeing rigiht now?
Maybe not that, but they should say

"Hey, Goku should be stronger than this!"


That's basically what Piccolo said.
Right. So that brings us back to square one really.
What do you mean by square one?
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Crazy Awesome Legend

Look, the humans had no way of know Goku's max before this point. When he transformed against Trunks, do you think he was going all out? They only got a smidgeon of his true power.

So any surprise they show during the Android fight is because they don't know any different. Goku might have been half his full capacity for all they knew. Although lets not go too far, he wasn't meant to be too different from Vegeta even without the virus. But the point is that the humans only guidelines for Goku's strength was what little he showed after Yardrat against Trunks.


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Victorious
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OK, well he should be stronger than Goku vs Trunks at least. The humans know that much.

Goku vs Trunks 3 years ago should already be well over Trunks from then.

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p123
Jul 20 2014, 06:06 PM
Because Sick Goku isn't terribly irrelevant to Healthy Goku
Piccolo: “Son Goku is rushing the match for some reason…He’s already putting out close to his full power…”

“But even so, what’s with that miserable condition of his?...”

Piccolo: “It’s not that. As a Super Saiyan, Goku’s power should be more stupendous than this…”


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Yeah, I interpret that comment that Goku's putting out max power or close to max power...that he's capable of putting out.

But a healthy Goku's max power is much more stupendous.
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Agreed. Looked like p was thinking of that line when he said that Sick Goku's not too far off.
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Crazy Awesome Legend

He only needs to be stronger than Trunks without the virus. His full power back then might well have been beyond what he was showing against 19. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not in anyway saying he didn't make gains in the three years. Of course he would have. But what I'm saying is that nobody knew the full extent of his power against Trunks. So he may have already been a match for 19 even back then. It's just that the virus did so much harm to him. It's speculation of course but it shows that we actually don't know what his limit was back then.


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Victorious
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Pelador
Jul 21 2014, 01:18 AM
He only needs to be stronger than Trunks without the virus. His full power back then might well have been beyond what he was showing against 19. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not in anyway saying he didn't make gains in the three years. Of course he would have. But what I'm saying is that nobody knew the full extent of his power against Trunks. So he may have already been a match for 19 even back then. It's just that the virus did so much harm to him. It's speculation of course but it shows that we actually don't know what his limit was back then.
Are you saying that he wasnt stronger than Trunks when they had their little duel between finger and sword?

I'm saying

Sick Goku > Goku vs Trunks > Trunks
Edited by Victorious, Jul 21 2014, 01:40 AM.
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Crazy Awesome Legend

The only time that he may have been weaker than Trunks is when he had the virus. But it's all a guess really because like I said, nobody has a clue what his full power is when he comes back from Yardrat. It has to be weaker than SSJ Vegeta against 19. We know that because Goku would have made gains over three years and they were roughly equal by then. But without seeing the full power, we can't judge the gains. It's possible that he barely made any gains at all. We just don't know.


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Pelador
Jul 21 2014, 01:44 AM
The only time that he may have been weaker than Trunks is when he had the virus. But it's all a guess really because like I said, nobody has a clue what his full power is when he comes back from Yardrat. It has to be weaker than SSJ Vegeta against 19. We know that because Goku would have made gains over three years and they were roughly equal by then. But without seeing the full power, we can't judge the gains. It's possible that he barely made any gains at all. We just don't know.
Well they would know his full power is at least as high as it was when he dueled Future Trunks.

So unless you think Yardrat Goku is actually weaker than Future Trunks from 3 years ago then it's doesnt make sense sick Goku is weaker than Future Trunks from 3 years ago. If that was the case they wouldn't be shocked at his power, they'd be more like Piccolo noticing the difference.

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You don't seem to be getting it. Nobody back then knows his full power because he doesn't show it. Like I said, he doesn't go all out against Trunks. What they see is a fraction. Probably his resting power. So when he fights the Android, his full power might very well be less than what it was three years earlier and the humans wouldn't even realise.
Edited by Pelador, Jul 21 2014, 02:06 AM.


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Victorious
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Pelador
Jul 21 2014, 02:05 AM
You don't seem to be getting it. Nobody back then knows his full power because he doesn't show it. Like I said, he doesn't go all out against Trunks. What they see is a fraction. Probably his resting power. So when he fights the Android, his full power might very well be less than what it was three years earlier and the humans wouldn't even realise.
Well if he was suppressed vs Trunks then it's possible we could get


Yardrat Goku unseen Full power > Sick Goku > Yardrat Goku vs Trunks > Trunks


But whatever power Yardrat Goku used vs Trunks, sick Goku should be ahead of at least that. Saying he was suppressed is kind of unnecessary bloating IMO and would put way to huge a gap between his full power and Trunks than what is needed.
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There is no suppressing for those guys yet.
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There's no reason why he wouldn't be suppressed. In fact it's heavily implied that he is because he doesn't spend several panels powering up. He just turns SSJ and then proceeds to block everything Trunks throws at him. Although Goku does state that trunks is holding back if I recall. There's also no reason why sick Goku has to be ahead of that. The virus could be causing all sorts of issues for all we know. You could argue that Yardrat Goku wouldn't have been able to fight 19 like he did but that's only depends on where you place pre absorbtion 19. Personally I don't have him very strong at all. Minimum he is Namek SSJ Goku. Maximum he is Trunks meeting Goku. But it's all just guesswork since no numbers are ever given.

You think as soon as he transforms he's at 100%? Nah. Granted he can't force it down like he does after ROSAT training but he still has a semblance of control. Hence how even Trunks could hold back.
Edited by Pelador, Jul 21 2014, 02:48 AM.


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