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| 22nd Budokai Breakdown | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 19 2014, 04:13 AM (3,051 Views) | |
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Jul 20 2014, 06:26 AM Post #76 |
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Roshi is back in his spectator role. Dragonball operates differently than DBZ. Everyone is just shocked at what just happened to Goku. I don't even think that was Tien's full power, which was suggested to only be able to probably beat Roshi. There is literally a dozen statements of Tien and Roshi complimenting each other and respecting each other. One little exclamation point doesn't change that imo. I could be wrong, I have to go over Tien vs Goku a bit more, I am still working on the other fights, I'm almost done. Kyouks, care to do a breakdown of all of their powers? Look at each fight, they alter their levels a s*** ton more than I thought. Roughly off hand I'm going with something like this.... Tien/ Roshi ( FP ) > Tien / Roshi Serious > Tien ( vs Yamcha Serious ) ~ Roshi ( Initial ) > Tien ( A little serious ) >>= Tien ( Initial vs Yamcha ) ~ Yamcha Also, I don't see much to suggest Krillen > Chaozu. Krillen couldn't hit Chaozu and had to resort to a Zanzouken which allowed him to get a good shot in, then he continues from there with his momentum yet Chaozu is able to block all of his punches although he is on the defensive, he gets pushed to the edge and says screw this I can fly and I have Dodonpa. He gets outclassed and gets hit with a Kamehameha which weakens his power clearly and then when Krillen hits Chaozu it's when he's off guard because Krillen confuses him with his math questions. So it's like Krillen is getting open shots. Although you could say that Krillen's open shots were more effective than Chaozu open shots he got with telekenesis, you need to still take into account that Chaozu has been weakened a good deal by the Kamehameha. |
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| + Kyouks | Jul 20 2014, 06:39 AM Post #77 |
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Tenshinhan must've overestimated Roshi, then, because it's not like he saw Roshi at his best – he has a) Roshi's rep, b) knowledge that Roshi held back. Yeah, he'll be wary; no, it needn't stand if something more concrete tells us something different, in my opinion. And he'd be thinking this during or right after he fought Tenshin, right? So if what Tenshinhan did to Goku at the start of their fight surpasses Roshi's expectations (that's what I got from your "I honestly think people constantly underestimate others"), what does that say about where Roshi stands? Not saying he has to be hella weak, I just disagree with Tien = Roshi. Ya ever consider that Roshi's statement could be taken differently? "I might really have lost even if we had continued fighting like that," i.e., as they were in the actual fight? Or perhaps "I might have lost" means "I am making a guess that Tenshinhan surpasses me," not "Tenshinhan surpasses me by a little, so maybe he'll win"? Chapter: 170, P12.2-4 Goku: “Just like I thought, Tenshinhan’s amazing! He took out Tao Pai Pai in just one blow.” Chapter: 312 (DBZ 118), P1.1 Freeza: “You’re strong. Astoundingly so, I might say…” Cell: “You really are good, aren’t you?...Frankly I didn’t think I’d be able to have so much fun.” That's not the only thing I go by, obviously. But that's cool, take your time. Yeah, I remember the time I created a BP list for Dragon Ball and I took note of each level of effort during the 22nd...not an easy time to say the least, haha. That's interesting. I'll definitely go over that fight later whenever I have the time. |
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| POOHEAD189 | Jul 20 2014, 06:44 AM Post #78 |
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He'd just be thinking it in general. The main thing is that Goku/Tien are fricken 15 and 19, while Roshi is over 300. If they're equal in power to him his jaw would drop.
To be fair, 2 of those are friends complimenting friends and Frieza has a God complex so... Plus Tien is ruthless in this tournament. He would not give compliments lightly, whereas Roshi would be more apt to. Edited by POOHEAD189, Jul 20 2014, 06:44 AM.
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| Tha gaol agam ort. <3 | |
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Jul 20 2014, 06:46 AM Post #79 |
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To give you a better answer I'll have to go over it better for Tien vs Goku. I still think that there are too many complimentary quotes suggesting that Roshi is to be respected by Tien. I don't think Tien can easily defeat Roshi is what it comes down to. Tien seems to have way too much respect for him. It doesn't feel that way to me and Roshi in spectator mode won't change that. It could just be shocking to see the match turn that way. Doesn't have to always be about power in comparison to your own power. But I'll give you a better impression tomorrow when I go over that more. Right now I'm more interested in the earlier part of the fights, Krillen vs Chaozu was really eye opening. Yamcha vs Tien was interesting as well as Goku vs Krillen. I need to go back and see if GOku ( Chappa ) can be = to Goku ( Krillen ) And it makes me remember that I didn't fine tooth comb the 21st Budokai. There's a good deal there too. Let me throw you out a quick one... Roshi ( Serious ) >> Roshi ( A little serious ) >= Krillen > Yamcha's Wolf Fang Fist > Roshi ( Leisure ) > Krillen Initial > Yamcha Initial |
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| + Kyouks | Jul 20 2014, 06:57 AM Post #80 |
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I get that the quotes I presented aren't the best for comparison, but showing respect to a fighter definitely doesn't have to mean that they're in your league, imo. I have no issue with Tien and Roshi's power being in a similar league, but I personally like to space them apart a bit more, and I'd definitely object to having them as dead equal. And as for the quotes themselves, I could still come up with similar explanations in this case, if that helps at all – – Roshi recognizes that these runts achieving such a level of power is a respectable feat, Tenshinhan is surprised that there's another old geezer who surpasses his own master (and then of course he realizes that said geezer is the great Roshi – during this time, that's deserving of respect from anyone unless you're Crane-man). Sure he will. He compliments Goku's power against Panput even though it's far lower than his. He calls Roshi a "master" before actually fighting him and realizing that he's better than his own master. He also acknowledges that Yamcha wasn't entirely full of hot air when the latter was boasting. And again, I ain't trying to say that Roshi's poop, folks. Just not quite as strong as most people like to have him. Have always gone with Goku using similar effort in each fight, and it'd kinda f*** up my views regarding Krillin/Yamcha/Chapa if it turns out he used more power, lol. Don't let me down! Neither have I. 21st was kinda boring imo apart from the last fight. Not seeing any issues there. Roshi's a beast. He literally waved Yamcha aside with his hand, no? Big advantage. |
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Jul 20 2014, 07:02 AM Post #81 |
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Yea I had a real hard time reading the earlier Dragonball stuff, not until Muscle Tower did I start getting intertested again. I did however lay down a chart for early DB and man that wasn't fun. Check it out... T-Rex > Triceratops > Megalodon > Goku > Krillen > Bear Bandit > Pteradactyl > SaberTooth Tiger At first I felt foolish to attempt to rate these prehistoric beasts, but the more I think about it, they are the key to determing how far Db guys are to average humans. Krillen one shotted a Saber Tooth Tiger, that's something no regular human could do. How about the Giant Octopus? Where should he be? Probably between Triceratops and Megalodon... When can humans fight with prehistoric beasts? I think Ox King may be able to. Maybe not. I do think Krillen at the Budokai can at least rival them. Lots of stuff there to think about too. I'm confident Roshi can. He's catching bullets and what not. |
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| + Kyouks | Jul 20 2014, 07:05 AM Post #82 |
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lol never bothered to think about those beasts except the bear bandit....and the octopus I guess, if you're referring to the one from the RRA saga...think it was when General Blue was at large. Goku's dodging bullets by Muscle Tower for what it's worth. |
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Jul 20 2014, 07:07 AM Post #83 |
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Well considering that Goku is at least Roshi's equal by the time of Muscle Tower, that makes that point a bit redundant don't you think? |
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| + Kyouks | Jul 20 2014, 07:10 AM Post #84 |
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Nope, because Goku ain't surpassing Roshi until the Baba arc. Roshi was playing us for fools at the 21st and the great q169 fell for it. |
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Jul 20 2014, 07:11 AM Post #85 |
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I don't buy that for a second. The Mummy's speed appears to be too much for Roshi, he never bamboozled us at all. He showed us his full power at the 21st. |
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| + Kyouks | Jul 20 2014, 07:14 AM Post #86 |
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Bro. No. Think Freeza and base Goku. Goku is poop. Same situation here. Jack told me. |
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Jul 20 2014, 07:19 AM Post #87 |
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You really are Jack Jr. Making short puzzling posts. What ever do you mean Jackie boy? A good response to my point... Roshi on Mummy " He's fast " would be Goku ( vs Chappa ) Jackie " He's fast " Which would have been countered with Goku after Roshi comments on Mummy's speed " You think so? " Meh... |
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| + Kyouks | Jul 20 2014, 07:24 AM Post #88 |
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Now replace Goku and Roshi with two different names...perhaps two men with so much time on their hands that they nerd out over shounen mang0s...and you'll see why my hold over you surpasses anything ol' Jack has ever done... ![]() Edit: at this rate I'll get warned won't i... Edited by Kyouks, Jul 20 2014, 07:25 AM.
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Jul 20 2014, 07:28 AM Post #89 |
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Haha well I hope we don't get any warnings because from my previous endeavors with the mods I'm on probation and will be banned 4 lyf if I get in any trouble at all. I'm too lost, do tell me what you are trying to say. |
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| + Kyouks | Jul 20 2014, 07:31 AM Post #90 |
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If the mods see fit to warn me, pls warn only me, p is clueless. @p: I set a welcoming trap and you helped yourself. Roshi >>> 21st Goku ain't the case, I agree. |
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