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| 22nd Budokai Breakdown | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 19 2014, 04:13 AM (3,049 Views) | |
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Jul 19 2014, 04:13 AM Post #1 |
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Perhaps one of the most complicated segments in the story in terms of power breakdowns. I'm going through this tournament again and I'm finding crazy,crazy stuff. Hopefully you guys can help me out. King Chappa 1) Talked up a ton. 2) Yamcha thinks if Goku is really on his game he can sqeak by. 3) Krillen and Yamcha aren't sure if Goku has gotten stronger over the three years. 4) Jackie thinks Goku is in for the fight of his life. And this fight will shows the fruits of his training. So I'd say King Chappa is decently stronger than Goku was Vs Tao Pai Pai and Gohan. 5) After his defeat Krillen says hey save some energy for later , to which Goku replies he would have killed him if he actually went all out. I think Chaozu, Yamcha and Krillen can all defeat Chappa, and probably a bit similar to how Goku did, it's just that that's where their power ends and it's just where Goku's begins... Chaozu vs Krilen, Chaozu actually uses a Dodonpa and a Super Dodonpa, surprising to me. Super Dodonpa seems really dramatic.... Super Dodonpa > Dodopna = KHH They are rivaling schools after all, so their attacks should be the same. Krillen seems to be decently stronger than Chaozu perhaps a 90% gap here is in order. When Krillen wants to, he ends up hurting Chaozu pretty badly. Yamcha vs Tien, Tien is equal at first, then he ups it a notch and Yamcha concedes and goes with the Wolf Fang Fist 2.0 which essentially is a technique that works like a weak version of Kaioken considering how Roshi had to alter his whole defensive strategy at the 21st Budokai when Yamcha used it against him and Goku almost couldn't see it when they fought when they first met. Tien then seems to get pissed and then he pulls that ol can't see me trick that's very popular in DB and one shots Yamcha. Tien raising his level here to a much higher level than Yamcha. Krillen and Goku fight probably takes place around the level Goku used to defeat Chappa imo. Maybe a but more, but Yamcha and Krillen aren't walking through Chappa easily imo... They start out as equals and Goku increases his ability and damn near finishies Krillen quickly. Another huge gap here. Then for the finish Goku might have increased more. Tien vs Jackie. I would think Tien starts off at the level he one shotted Yamcha at here. He had much praise for Jackie and thinks he is a legit challenge. I don't see why he would lower his effort here. So at this level they are already way beyond Krillen Yamcha and Chaozu imo... They are fighting evenly, Tien gets the upper hand using superior strategy and Roshi decides to get serious. Roshi puts a hurting on TIen to which Tien angrily replies back and now they seem to be even again.... Tien ( Serious ) = Roshi ( Serious ) > Tien/ Roshi Initially They pretty much stay at this level but both concede there is a good deal of power in reserves for both parties involved. I can't remember Tien vs Goku in this level of detail but I'll get back to it. I don't think Goku needs to be stronger than Tien here, Goku is displaying superior battle skills here like he did at the 21st Budokai. Anyway, let me know what you guys think. |
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| + Emmeth | Jul 19 2014, 04:01 PM Post #2 |
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Your thoughts on Tenshinhan apparently saying Roshi had much left? I think it goes something like this: Tenshinhan (100%) > Roshi (100%, expected by Ten) > Tenshinhan (Serious) = Roshi (Serious) > Initial. |
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| Alex D. Boss | Jul 19 2014, 04:49 PM Post #3 |
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I think Goku had a 1 or 2 moments to have the advantage over Tien. |
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| + Emmeth | Jul 19 2014, 05:06 PM Post #4 |
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I disagree. I think Goku always had the advantage (barring when Chaozu paralyzed him) which pushed Tenshinhan to use the Kikoho. |
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| Alex D. Boss | Jul 19 2014, 05:12 PM Post #5 |
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I would put Goku slightly above Tien, by a small margin where its almost unnoticeable. |
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| + Emmeth | Jul 19 2014, 05:13 PM Post #6 |
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Considering they were both very tired out, I say that's accurate. |
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Jul 19 2014, 05:41 PM Post #7 |
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Yea, the Roshi is respectable to Tien mantra is pushed nearly a dozen a times. There's no way I would go away from that. Goku seems to be outclassing Tien, much like he did Jackie Chun 3 years ago. Honestly I don't see much in the way for superior power or speed. Everything is basically the same or close enough to be. I could be wrong, but all of DB's big fights feel like Goku is winning on his pure tenacity and utter determination more than any sort of power or speed advantage. And Jackie Chun probably losing to Tien doesn't necessarily have to be power either, the whole lot of DB feels more about skill than power and speed for the big fights. |
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| Alex D. Boss | Jul 19 2014, 05:47 PM Post #8 |
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Yeah but there's also a line about : Chapter: 129, P6.4, P7.1-4, P8.1 Goku: “You really are strong. I’m flabbergasted.” Tenshinhan: “That’s my line. You’re an amazingly tough bastard…” Goku: “Knowing you, you won’t die even if I put out my full power, so it looks like I can go all out!” Tenshinhan: “Don’t make me laugh. You’ve already been going all out.” Goku: “Yeah, at my match-use power. [ ] But it looks like you’re trying to kill me, so I’ll go at it with my battle-use power too!” Tien thinks Goku is going all out. Its like the same way as Gohan thinking about the Goku vs Cell fight. I'll probably put Roshi lower than you think should be. |
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Jul 19 2014, 05:54 PM Post #9 |
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There's literally a dozen complimentary quotes from Tien about Roshi. It's pretty clear where the author is steering this. At least imo. So Tien thinking Goku going all out effects this conversation how exactly? |
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| Alex D. Boss | Jul 19 2014, 05:59 PM Post #10 |
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Roshi already thinking that his position is vanished by Goku, and Tien not finding Goku's power amazing yet , until Goku uses his FP , same goes for Tien. |
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Jul 19 2014, 06:02 PM Post #11 |
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Yea I've heard that line of thinking before. While I was reading last night I felt that is an misinterpretation by some folks. Roshi thinking he has lost his position is a meme that has been repeated multiple times and doesn't really make much sense. Roshi says it when he has and hasn't been surpassed. It's a really odd segment and really poor writing compared to later AT work of having such clear points of power. How I take Roshi's comment is that he is considering that FP Goku has surpassed FP Roshi. Not that Match Level Goku > FP Roshi. We already confirmed that Roshi and Tien are close to each other. Tien seems to defeat Match Level Goku with the power he fought evenly with Jackie. Tien vs Jackie ( Serious Power ) > Match Level Goku |
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| + Emmeth | Jul 19 2014, 06:14 PM Post #12 |
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If you mean Goku at Krillin, which I think you do, you're wrong. Chapter: 127, P13.1-2 Tsuru-sennin: “H-he’s outrageous…He just might be good enough to have defeated Tao Pai Pai…” Kame-sennin: “Goku gets bigger and bigger each time I see him…I get the feeling that my position’s already vanished…” There's no coming around the fact that Goku had already surpassed Roshi at his match level. |
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Jul 19 2014, 06:15 PM Post #13 |
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Then there is no coming around the fact that Chaozu > Match Level Goku then. |
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| Alex D. Boss | Jul 19 2014, 06:19 PM Post #14 |
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Kame-sennin: “Goku gets bigger and bigger each time I see him…I get the feeling that my position’s already vanished…” I think you can see it as a final nail in the coffin for AT telling us that Goku > Jackie definitely in the series as it continues. I'm not sure about Roshi being close to them. Chiautzu says Tien is going all out for the 1st time, it depends how far they are compared to Roshi. But I think : Goku FP: 100 Tien FP: 98 Tien Battle use power: 93 Goku Match level: 92 Roshi FP 90 Edited by Alex D. Boss, Jul 19 2014, 06:20 PM.
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| + Emmeth | Jul 19 2014, 06:22 PM Post #15 |
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How'd you come to that conclusion, sir? |
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