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Goku's zenkais - en route of Namek
Topic Started: Jul 16 2014, 11:09 PM (1,900 Views)
Victorious
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Naked Snake
Jul 21 2014, 02:18 AM
Victorious
Jul 21 2014, 02:15 AM
Quote:
 
So, Goku wasn't there, right?

He found out about zenkais on his,way to Namek, as Kyooks has shown.


Krillin noticed Goku's zenkais in Dragon Ball. How could Goku not be there for his own zenkais to be noticed?

YOu're saying that Krillin would notice Goku's zenkais and Goku wouldnt. I think that's stupid.
Krillin connects the dots once he gets an explanation of what zenkais are. Goku trains and figures out what zenkais are by recovering from his wounds.

Goku was there to notice, but whenever he got a zenkais, something was going on. Krillin simply remembered the power jumps. Goku got them, but didn't understand them. He realizes on the ship that he gets a boost when he recovers from near-death.
Well that's one interpretation I guess, mine works fine though too, and I would say better with conjunction with Vegeta's comment.


But I guess if Saiayn's rules don't really apply to Cell then Vegeta's rules might not apply to Goku. So you could be right. I just think it's kinda cheap and prefer my POV.
Edited by Victorious, Jul 21 2014, 02:24 AM.
Victorious' fan made Dragon Ball Z Battle Power (Sentō-ryoku) list
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* Yu Narukami
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Victorious
Jul 21 2014, 02:22 AM
Naked Snake
Jul 21 2014, 02:18 AM
Victorious
Jul 21 2014, 02:15 AM
Quote:
 
So, Goku wasn't there, right?

He found out about zenkais on his,way to Namek, as Kyooks has shown.


Krillin noticed Goku's zenkais in Dragon Ball. How could Goku not be there for his own zenkais to be noticed?

YOu're saying that Krillin would notice Goku's zenkais and Goku wouldnt. I think that's stupid.
Krillin connects the dots once he gets an explanation of what zenkais are. Goku trains and figures out what zenkais are by recovering from his wounds.

Goku was there to notice, but whenever he got a zenkais, something was going on. Krillin simply remembered the power jumps. Goku got them, but didn't understand them. He realizes on the ship that he gets a boost when he recovers from near-death.
Well that's one interpretation I guess, mine works fine though too, and I would say better with conjunction with Vegeta's comment.


But I guess if Saiayn's rules don't really apply to Cell then Vegeta's fules might not apply to Goku. So you could be right. I just think it's kinda cheap and prefer my POV.
Cell explicitly talks about his Saiyan Cells, though. Nothing indicates his zenkai abilities were any different. The self-destruction was self-inflicted, so we can assume that self-inflicted injuries can cause zenkais.
Edited by Yu Narukami, Jul 21 2014, 02:25 AM.
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Victorious
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Naked Snake
Jul 21 2014, 02:23 AM
Victorious
Jul 21 2014, 02:22 AM
Naked Snake
Jul 21 2014, 02:18 AM
Victorious
Jul 21 2014, 02:15 AM
Quote:
 
So, Goku wasn't there, right?

He found out about zenkais on his,way to Namek, as Kyooks has shown.


Krillin noticed Goku's zenkais in Dragon Ball. How could Goku not be there for his own zenkais to be noticed?

YOu're saying that Krillin would notice Goku's zenkais and Goku wouldnt. I think that's stupid.
Krillin connects the dots once he gets an explanation of what zenkais are. Goku trains and figures out what zenkais are by recovering from his wounds.

Goku was there to notice, but whenever he got a zenkais, something was going on. Krillin simply remembered the power jumps. Goku got them, but didn't understand them. He realizes on the ship that he gets a boost when he recovers from near-death.
Well that's one interpretation I guess, mine works fine though too, and I would say better with conjunction with Vegeta's comment.


But I guess if Saiayn's rules don't really apply to Cell then Vegeta's fules might not apply to Goku. So you could be right. I just think it's kinda cheap and prefer my POV.
Cell explicitly talks about his Saiyan Cells, though.
Yes it's Cell's Saiyan component/Cell's that give him the zenkai power up. But I'd say it's pretty accurate to say that there are rules that limit Saiyans that don't apply to him.

For one, just the level of strength he's at. There's no evidence Saiyans even even remotely in the Perfect Cell tier can get zenkai power ups. But he can.


We're probably honestly dealing with some AT plot device but if you want to explain it in universe wise their zenkai ability is limiting compared to his.
Victorious' fan made Dragon Ball Z Battle Power (Sentō-ryoku) list
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* Yu Narukami
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Victorious
Jul 21 2014, 02:30 AM
Naked Snake
Jul 21 2014, 02:23 AM
Victorious
Jul 21 2014, 02:22 AM
Naked Snake
Jul 21 2014, 02:18 AM
Victorious
Jul 21 2014, 02:15 AM
Quote:
 
So, Goku wasn't there, right?

He found out about zenkais on his,way to Namek, as Kyooks has shown.


Krillin noticed Goku's zenkais in Dragon Ball. How could Goku not be there for his own zenkais to be noticed?

YOu're saying that Krillin would notice Goku's zenkais and Goku wouldnt. I think that's stupid.
Krillin connects the dots once he gets an explanation of what zenkais are. Goku trains and figures out what zenkais are by recovering from his wounds.

Goku was there to notice, but whenever he got a zenkais, something was going on. Krillin simply remembered the power jumps. Goku got them, but didn't understand them. He realizes on the ship that he gets a boost when he recovers from near-death.
Well that's one interpretation I guess, mine works fine though too, and I would say better with conjunction with Vegeta's comment.


But I guess if Saiayn's rules don't really apply to Cell then Vegeta's fules might not apply to Goku. So you could be right. I just think it's kinda cheap and prefer my POV.
Cell explicitly talks about his Saiyan Cells, though.
Yes it's Cell's Saiyan component/Cell's that give him the zenkai power up. But I'd say it's pretty accurate to say that there are rules that limit Saiyans that don't apply to him.

For one, just the level of strength he's at. There's no evidence Saiyans even even remotely in the Perfect Cell tier can get zenkai power ups. But he can.


We're probably honestly dealing with some AT plot device but if you want to explain it in universe wise their zenkai ability is limiting compared to his.
There's no reason to give Cell this special ability when Goku can get zenkais from self-inflicted training injuries.

Two instances of it occurring. Seems like Vegeta might've been wrong.
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Victorious
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Yeah but like I said, I don't think Goku got zenkais on the ship.

I definitely don't think Vegeta was wrong about himself. So maybe Goku can get them and Vegeta can't by self infliction. And Cell's ability came from Goku. I guess that's not unreasonable. Protagonist hax BS if you ask me though.
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When did Goku learn about zenkais? From his wounds given by Vegeta?
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* Yu Narukami
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Victorious
Jul 21 2014, 02:40 AM
Yeah but like I said, I don't think Goku got zenkais on the ship.

I definitely don't think Vegeta was wrong about himself. So maybe Goku can get them and Vegeta can't by self infliction. And Cell's ability came from Goku. I guess that's not unreasonable. Protagonist hax BS if you ask me though.
So now Vegeta's somehow an exception? You know, everything works out fine if you just accept that Vegeta was wrong.
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Victorious
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Pyrus
Jul 21 2014, 02:42 AM
When did Goku learn about zenkais? From his wounds given by Vegeta?
Well I would say he learned about them a long time ago. Back in DB.

Krilin at the very least was able to notice power ups in Goku after a near death fight.
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Vertical
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Perhaps intent matters. If you injure yourself to the brink, then heal.... you get a zenkai... unless you did it on purpose to get a zenkai.

Though I can't see much of a diff between doing it yourself and asking someone to do it.
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Professor Gohan
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Quote:
 
Goku has somehow realized the Saiyan characteristic of their strength increasing when they overcome death…


I think this should at least cover one zenkai that he achieved through training. That's Toriyama's words about Goku gaining a zenkai in narration form.
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POOHEAD189
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Maybe Vegeta was just lying to Krillin and he knows that if he himself tried it he might hold back and just hurt himself. If there are other statements supporting Goku getting Zenkai's on the ship, it seems likely.
Tha gaol agam ort. <3
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I'm aware this is a few days late, but I was researching for a collegiate essay when I stumbled upon this bit of information in the fourth volume of Daizenshuu.

Quote:
 
Battle Power
They power up each time they are revived.

They achieve an unbelievable power up after returning from the brink of death. They can rapidly increase their battle power by coming close to death through mortal combat and intense training. The stronger their opponent, the stronger they become. That is why they are called a warrior race.


http://web.archive.org/web/20111104071121/http://kanzentai.com/trans-daiz04.php?m=02&id=race#link
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I think the Zenkai works on intent. If your doing something with the thought of getting stronger to fight an opponent you get the Zenkai. Vegeta at the time was trying to simply abuse his Zenkai to get SSJ and had been running from Frieza up to that point.

Since Vegeta was running and hiding from Frieza maybe his body didn't release what he would need for the Zenkai to take effect but getting Krillen to do it release this chemical.

You can Zenkai your self if your in battle or training or outside ki will Zenkai you every time.
Edited by miguelnuva, Jul 23 2014, 08:56 PM.
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Gogeta power placement
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Kblo247
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I would say Vegeta is a case of too strong a sense of self preservation. He was willing to let Krillin do it, but it's too much a part of his psyche to kill himself until Buu comes along. Vegeta was a survivor, it's what got him thru Zarbon, years in the PTO, and that 4 on 1 beatdown on earth. I just don't think he was in a place where he was willing to possibly risk killing himself. If he did, there's no guarantee that Dende will even heal him, whereas its likely Dende will so Krillin doesn't have a kill on his conscious.

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