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Battle of Gods canon?
Topic Started: Jul 15 2014, 05:23 PM (25,854 Views)
+ Emmeth
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I Yoeri

AT never said BoG was a side-story, ergo it's canon. If you roll like that.
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

Another way to think about it is this. Has Akira Toiryama incorporated it into the canon of his manga...if so...then its canon. And lets just say he's really incorporated a lot of Battle of Gods into his original story now, what with Beers being the one who trapped Elder Kaioshin in and all that. But unlike GT which he just calls a nice little side story, he never incorporated GT or the movies into his original story in someway.
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GrooseStrikesBack
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I don't believe it's canon because a certain few things contradict the Manga.
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+ Emmeth
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TerrorOfPerfection
Jul 16 2014, 03:13 AM
I don't believe it's canon because a certain few things contradict the Manga.
But the manga contradicts the manga sometimes. Would you not call the manga canon because of a few contradicting things?
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+ Havoc_Wreaker
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Popcorn

i mean opinions will always be opinions whether good or bad but i mean

With what stance did you approach your work?
To be honest, I was busy as it was with just my own job, so I didn’t intend to get involved with the animation. The rough script I read in order to check it over had an interesting-sounding theme of a God of Destruction, but the contents were a little dark, so while I was in the midst of giving advice on how to improve it, I got carried away and ended up writing almost everything. For the character designs, as well, I had an image of them to a certain extent while I was thinking up the contents [of the movie], so I decided that it would be faster to just draw them myself rather than asking for this or that.

i mean AT basically wrote everything and drew all the character art as well
Yūsuke Watanabe basically wrote a really rough script here as u can see but AT took over and did like he says almost everything

BUT it should be noted that as far as animation goes he didnt do much, he didnt do much for the fight scenes that was
almost all the anime staff

Did you make any requests for the direction of Beerus’ battle?
I did generally write in a rough idea of their exchanges, but apart from that, I left the battle scenes up to the people on the anime staff. They’ve been doing Dragon Ball for a long time, and I believed that leaving the animation up to talented professionals would result in something much better than thinking it up for myself. And it was just the kind of quality I expected.

and with the other quote of the movie not being a side story i find it hard to believe this movie being ''non-canon''
but w/e :blush:

source: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/battle-gods-animanga-akira-toriyama/
Edited by Havoc_Wreaker, Jul 16 2014, 03:34 AM.
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+ Pyrus
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Father Brofist
Jul 15 2014, 08:16 PM
There's a big difference between something that's canon or non canon and something that's stupid. There's a lot of stupid things in the manga or Battle of Gods, stupid ideas, plotholes, inconsistencies, you name it. Things that don't make sense, this does not make them non-canon. Canon is simply the original material and any material afterwards is canon if considered to be part of the original material by said original author or authors.

If AT came out and said that Piccolo was weaker than Ginyu at the end of Z, that would be canon. It would be a horrible plothole and inconsistency mind you that made no flip of a sense, but that wouldn't make it non-canon. People I think often make the mistake of thinking something that is canon must make sense to the original material.

There's a difference between inconsistency and plotholes...and something that is non-canon. Otherwise we'd say the Boo Arc was non-canon with all of its issues. Now of course if people are saying BOG is non-canon because AT only did character designs, that's just people being foolish as we already know how much work AT put into BOG.
This is something a lot of people don't comprehend for various reasons. It's like the information we get from Toriyama in interviews, where people throw it out because they either don't like what they've read or don't think it makes sense with what they've come to know.

"What?! WHAT!?! Krillin...stronger than...my lord and savior Tenshinhan!?!!!!? That's complete horse cock and I will NOT stand for it. It makes NO sense from my perspective and I don't accept it. Nope. Toriyama's an old a***** that doesn't know what he's talking about anymore. I know what the truth is in the manga and it's not what he said. His statement is invalid and you can use it all you want but it makes no difference to me because it's wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, KEVIN SPACEY WROOOOOONNNG!!"

Ja, I used that as an example. Hate me! It is "canon." From the author's mind, one character is superior to the other. Me, I think there's a difference between what Brofist brought up with Ginyu, and something like this. With Brofist's example, that would count as a plot hole because we have various statements and feats that make Piccolo stronger than Ginyu, so if Toriyama were to come out and say otherwise, it'd be a slap in the face to everything we've known for decades. With the Krillin example, despite what that type of fan wants to believe, there was never one statement or outright implication that Tenshinhan was stronger than Krillin (please understand that the Shin Kikoho is not a comparison of the two) past the Saiyan battle, but there's everything to say he wasn't. It doesn't count as a plot hole or an inconsistency to me because it's easily supported and not difficult in the slightest to work out how it'd be true, unlike the Piccolo case where you'd have to dump practically everything post-Saiyan battle from Piccolo's side into the trash compactor.

If the new movie came out and Tenshinhan was stated or undoubtedly shown to be superior to Krillin (fighting and doing better against a stronger opponent, fighting and doing better against the same opponent, etc.), then we'd have an inconsistency on our hands (of course, you could always say Tenshinhan surpassed Krillin since BOG). The same kind of principle would apply for something like Goku being stated to be superior to Gohan during the events of the Boo arc. It'd be a hassle to rework everything, but it'd still be what we'd have to do. It wouldn't be "non-canon" just because of that.

I've started to ramble and I have no idea what my original point was anymore so feel free to ignore this post.
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+ Havoc_Wreaker
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Popcorn

so in that longgggg post all ur were saying was that

if AT says something that is believable then believe it (krillen>tien)
but if AT says something that is against proof shown clearly in the manga dont( ie, ginyu>buu arc piccolo)

ja
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+ Pyrus
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Havoc_Wreaker
Jul 16 2014, 06:12 AM
so in that longgggg post all ur were saying was that

if AT says something that is believable then believe it (krillen>tien)
but if AT says something that is against proof shown clearly in the manga dont( ie, ginyu>buu arc piccolo)

ja
Not exactly. It's still Toriyama's word either way. I'm just saying there are things that are easy to slide into the work already established, and some things that aren't.
Edited by Pyrus, Jul 16 2014, 08:08 AM.
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Andro
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Canon and Non-Canon is just a word, it's quite objective.
Well, Toriyama in recent interviews said that BoG can be a side story. But I don't really see it due to it giving us plenty of important facts that can't be dismissed (12 Universes, God of Destruction, Kaiju Tree etc.)
You should tell your friend that canon is anything you want (it) to be. It's a fictional universe, no one can tell you otherwise.
As people have theories over a series, the same thing applies with "Canonicity". There's a beauty behind unexplained things. They are there to let you decide.
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+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans
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魔王子

Well, there is a line that has to be drawn, when an official canon is declared. Star Wars for example has a defined one. Dragon Ball though, yes, nothing is defined so it consists of a fanon.
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Jul 16 2014, 01:20 PM.
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* Ketchup Revenge
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"

To be entirely honest, no one official has ever come out and stated what's considered canon and what isn't. Toriyama obviously doesn't care about this because he's never made a statement about the series as a whole, but most fans seem to consider the manga as the only true canon, while everything else is either non-canon or semi-canon. This is my standard as well.

Canon= Manga

Semi Canon= Manga supplementation (stories/senarios written by Toriyama himself/ approved by Toriyama, and doesn't contradict source material)

Non Canon= Material that doesn't conform the manga at all.

I'd put BOG into the Semi-canon category with stuff like Neko Majin and Dragon Ball Minus. BOG was simply re-written by Toriyama, but he didn't write it originally. If he had written the whole thing of his own accord, and didn't contradict the manga, than I would probably consider it 100% canon.
Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Jul 16 2014, 02:27 PM.
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Saberoph
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Lately I'm really liking the POV of everything being canon but being in different universes.

It's been said it's based off his original work, so that should be enough to be considered canon. However, I do think it's very shaky given the inconsistencies of BOG.
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
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+ Yusuke
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12 Universe concept ring a bell guys?

BoG could easily be one of the 12 universes and the other movies could take place in the other ones.
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Saberoph
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What the hell is the 12 Universe concept ring?
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

Intellectual savior of the masses.
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+ Emmeth
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I Yoeri

I think Yusuke is talking about Beerus' comment about there being 12 other gods of destruction in 12 other universes. It doesn't necessarily mean it's the same universe in 12 different time-periods. It could just be 12 other dimensions.
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