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| Discrimination against Atheists, non-Christians, and alternative lifestyles | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 5 2014, 03:06 PM (3,215 Views) | |
| * Ketchup Revenge | Jul 5 2014, 03:06 PM Post #1 |
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
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For anyone that's done any type of debating with me, it shouldn't come as a surprise that I'm an atheist. Atheism is defined by the lack of a belief in a god or gods. However, it annoys me when fundamentalists that I debate tell me that I only say I'm an atheist because I'm "angry at God" for some reason, or the thing that really annoys me is when they call me a "Satanist". The reason why this annoys me is because both God and Satan are as real to me as Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny, so how can I be mad at something or side with something that I don't believe exists in the first place? It's not that I completely discount the possibility of a God, I just don't believe in the theistic versions of God. It's hard to for me to believe in a god that is supposed to be "all-powerful" and "all-knowing" if you actually look at all the ways that the Universe is trying kill us. And in my opinion, our understanding of the universe and our expansion of our knowledge of the universe has far outgrown our understanding of the powers of God. And despite this growing "disbelief" in the US, there are 8 states who still don't allow Atheists to hold public office, even though there is no proof that associating with a religion actually makes you more morally inclined. If anything, I'd suggest it does the opposite. The presidents associating with a specific religion didn't come about until after our 16th president Abraham Lincoln. Lincoln himself was known to be an Atheist by his friend, but used religious oriented language in his speeches to grab people's attention. He also considered coming out as an atheist, but was advised against it by his friends. This is also true for the founding Fathers. Most of them were either irreligious or Atheist. Yet, fundamentalists go on and on about the US being a "Christian Nation", and even go as far to say that Atheists aren't "true citizens" because they don't believe in God, and most specifically, don't believe in the Christian god. This is one of the biggest travesties in the US considering that our entire country's structure was based on freedom of religion, and separation of Church and State. However, lately it seems as though people are forgetting this basic principal. It was just passed by the Supreme Court that businesses like the Christian based one "Hobby Lobby" can disallow female employees to have company based health insurance that covers contraceptives. Because of this "victory" for Hobby Lobby, there's legislation trying to be passed in the US Congress which would allow federally funded religious based employers to be exempt from hiring people who are LGBT. Last year, there was a courthouse down in Florida that had an atheist monument put up next to a stone tablet of the Ten Commandments. The main issue was that this stone tablet was on state property right in front of the courthouse, so Atheists erected a monument to their "dis-beliefs" to counteract this. As many of you know, there is a Satanic monument that is going to be erected in Oklahoma. In order to prove a point, there have been several non-Christian prayers and rituals held at public institutions, and the reception has not been positive. Just recently, there was an African religious ritual held at a town meeting in Florida that was rudely interrupted by Christians. There was also a Satanic mass held at Harvard University, but since this was in New England, which is a mostly irreligious region, people really didn't care as much about it. A few weeks ago, there were several political representatives from Louisianna who spoke out about their Christian beliefs being oppressed. This was mostly in response to the new TV series (re-boot, technically) starring Neil deGrasse Tyson called "Cosmos: A Spacetime Odyssey", which promoted a purely scientific understanding of creation and the workings of the known Universe. This series was presented in a way that takes God out of the equation, given that conventional science does not recognize faith as science. This "speaking out" from these Louisianna representatives also came in light of the new law passed in the UK about tax funded schools and academies not being able to teach Creationism. This has been a very controversial issue in the US for years now, and some Southern States here teach both The Theory of Evolution and the Christian account of Creationism with the same merits of validity, despite one having no evidence and being favored over many other accounts of Creation in different religious beliefs. What are your thoughts about discrimination against non-Christians or people who live alternative lifestyles in mostly Christian oriented societies? And what are your thoughts about the religious majority's beliefs being oppressed? Do you believe they are being oppressed? Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Jul 6 2014, 12:09 AM.
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 The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him. | |
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| Rogafufuken | Jul 5 2014, 03:50 PM Post #2 |
 
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I despise it. If someone's an atheist, or any other religion besides christian, how does that affect you [discriminators]? They seem to think that everyone has to be Christian, forgetting one of the most basic rights Americans have, as well as people in other countries with Freedom of Religion. Face it, christian aren't oppressed. I've never seen anybody be discriminated because they are christian. i have never seen any of the horrible things that some people do to Muslims, such as yelling racial slurs, and attempting to destroy religious buildings, to Christians. I'm not denying that Christians aren't opressed in some minor way, though it isn't 1% of what other religions, like Islam, gets. A lot of Christians also seem to think that just because the Bible is against homosexuality, that it should not be allowed, ignoring speration of church and state. I could go on, but it just angers me. -A Christian. |
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| EMIYA | Jul 5 2014, 03:52 PM Post #3 |
"I am the bone of my sword."
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Spirituality is something is very postie to a person. it's positively social, positively psychological, positively physical. Having a keen spiritual understanding and belief is something any sociologist will tell you has improvements to a person's life. Religion though is a load of turkey crap and is probably one if not the single most abrasive and idiotic thing mankind has ever made up. This why I try to differentiate between spirituality and religion as a whole. As an Agnostic, I myself have been discriminated because of my own points of view and of course I have to live in the South as well. It's a massivve problem both in our country and in our world that lacks any sort of knowledge, intelligence or understanding. This is why I despite it when people use their morality over actual logic and intelligence. That's what religion is, it's morality. It's not what is right, its what you want to be right and with no way to prove your point. Religion is literally just one huge massive logical fallacy with no way to prove it and any evidence you might find, can easily be disproved by the logical side. The religious side being oppressed? Mind you there are religions being oppressed but in the case of those popular ones? Well maybe when the science side goes on a mass Science Crusade and starts killing off thousands of people and discriminating and torturing and regressing humanity's movement across the centuries and using bogus logic to prove their point and constantly...then we'll start talking. Science and stuff has never utilized morality to prove its point, that's not its job. A scientist is supposed to take the facts and data and interpret them in a complete non bias way. Religion can't, religion is the word of God and as one sociology book once said "Religion is true because God decrees it, God decrees it because religion. Hello circular logic and that's what religion is. It's a circular piece of logic. You can't use logic to prove God and you have no way to provide any evidence to it without conjecture. I'm not going to far on this so I'll conclude here. Religion is horrible. Spirituality good, but religion is something that should never have existed at least not in the form we have today. Religions and mythologies in the past at least the point of making their tales very humanistic. The Greek Gods had very human personalities and this was a lot easier to relate to then some guy who is apparently all knowing and powerful and loving but goes around flooding the earth, killing millions of people in concentration camps or is apparently too stupid to stop his own creations from eating a fruit...despite being omniscient. |
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| * Ketchup Revenge | Jul 5 2014, 04:00 PM Post #4 |
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
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I will also point out that there are plenty of Atheists who are a**holes too. There was one recent incident in Nebraska where Atheists were trying to get road-side crosses removed from state highways. They even went as far to pester a woman who they found visiting a cross that was set up for her son, who died in a car accident. They saw her, and walked up to her and demanded that she take it down. I don't care what religion or belief system you're from or what symbol is representing the memory of the loved one. But asking people to defile the memory or symbol of their passed loves ones is just the lowest of the low. There's absolutely no justification for that. Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Jul 5 2014, 04:04 PM.
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The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him. | |
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| + Pelador | Jul 5 2014, 04:04 PM Post #5 |
Crazy Awesome Legend
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Haven't heard anything about creationism not being taught in academies and free schools. Pretty sure it's part of the national curriculum to learn that in religious studies/education classes. Alongside the other main religions. Unless they are faith schools in which case I think it gets a bit more complicated. That aside, of course it's stupid to discriminate and hate people who hold different beliefs to your own. Leave it to God if there is such a thing to decide who's right and who's wrong. Because frankly just like with sexual preferences it's nobodies business. As for Christians being discriminated against, it does happen. But in places such as Egypt, Syria, Turkey and Pakistan. Not America as far as I'm aware. |
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| Return Of Imjustsaiyanbro | Jul 5 2014, 04:10 PM Post #6 |
Elder
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Well, as a Christian I can understand why some people don't believe in my religion. Most likley you're an Atheist because of a lack of scientific evidence, right? So that's cool with me. And that's cool with a lot of other Christians as well. But you know, just like all groups of people, there are the ones intolerant of others who are different or feel that their group might be better. I haven't ever heard of Atheists being discriminated against so this is breaking news to me. If true, than this is something that should end. |
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STRAIGHT OUTTA NAMEK I miss my cocoa butter kisses. Which one of these mods tryna let me bust? Spoiler: click to toggle Spoiler: click to toggle
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| Rogafufuken | Jul 5 2014, 04:10 PM Post #7 |
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Yeah, there will always be good people and a***** in every group, and those people definitely are a*****. It would be a perfect world if everyone could just coexist in peace, though it's far fetched. People can just try their best to make it happen. Edited by Rogafufuken, Jul 5 2014, 04:12 PM.
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| * Ketchup Revenge | Jul 6 2014, 12:02 AM Post #8 |
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
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America is hugely Christian, and the times that they claim that there's discrimination against them is when the minority religions are trying to state that them pushing Christian religion is unjust or unconstitutional. Here's several articles on the UK banning the teaching of Creationism in free schools: RT.com Boingboing.net If*ckinglovescience.com
It's not so much that I don't believe in God, it's just that I don't believe in any theistic (religious) view of God. If a god does exist, and he truly works in mysterious ways, there's no possible way that we can know what that God's intentions are. It is an extraordinary claim to say that you know what God wants, and all I as an Atheist ask for is a little evidence other than blind faith. As for the states that ban Atheists from taking public office... Arkansas: "No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any Court." Maryland: "That no religious test ought ever to be required as a qualification for any office of profit or trust in this State, other than a declaration of belief in the existence of God; nor shall the Legislature prescribe any other oath of office than the oath prescribed by this Constitution." Mississippi: "No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office in this state." North Carolina: "The following persons shall be disqualified for office: First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God." South Carolina: "No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office under this Constitution." Tennessee: "No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state." Texas: "No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being." Pennsylvania: "No person who acknowledges the being of a God and a future state of rewards and punishments shall, on account of his religious sentiments, be disqualified to hold any office or place of trust or profit under this Commonwealth." Scource: Wikipedia: Discrimination against Atheists Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Jul 6 2014, 12:10 AM.
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The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him. | |
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| + Pelador | Jul 6 2014, 12:40 AM Post #9 |
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Crazy Awesome Legend
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Ah I see. That kind of goes with what I was saying then. It cannot be taught as an alternative to the scientific theory. However it can be taught alongside it providing that it's restricted to religious or philosophy classes. Also those states are f***ing dum. I wonder if those rules could be challenged in anyway? |
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| + Steve | Jul 6 2014, 12:43 AM Post #10 |
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
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Ridiculous how people should be denied office for not believing in God, hilariously ridiculous. A smart scientist who might help a state in many ways is far more qualified than some idiot who's just going to pray to God and expect God to run the state for them. Not that people who believe in God are dumb but it is NOT a qualification of any sort that whole notion is pathetic. I'll believe Superman exists before any religious God, there's my Supreme Being can I be a senator now? Or the Flying Spaghetti Monster it sounds legit to me too. Just like being a member of a royal family doesn't guarantee one is smart or fit to rule believing in or not believing in a religion/God does not make someone more qualified to do anything, barring religious stuff like Priesthood. Edited by Steve, Jul 6 2014, 12:44 AM.
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 Definitely not a succubus, fear not | |
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| Copy_Ninja | Jul 6 2014, 01:05 AM Post #11 |
Novacane for the pain
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It was challenged in Torasco v Watkins. The Supreme Court overturned the Maryland provision as it's violates the First Amendment. Those laws can't actually be enforced, if they tried then someone could just take them to the Courts who would have to apply Torasco as binding precedent and overturn it. |
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| TheGmGoken | Jul 6 2014, 06:10 AM Post #12 |
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OK here's my problem with Religious Christians. They take s*** to far. Let me take my uncle Kenny for example. He doesn't like me or my older siblings. Why? I'm not a virgin and I'm not married. Same with my older sisters. My other sister a lesbian. He talk bad bout us and say we aren't "holy". He made a f***ing rude remark bout my sister choice of sexuality. Maybe one day Amber will wear a dress to her wedding with her......husband. I know some overly religious people who does this. It pisses me off. Honestly religious people are the biggest jackasses on Earth. Who cares how someone lives? Why do Christians (especially them) feel the need to be rude. I mean hardcore Christians. Hell I think people take the s*** to seriously. Here's why. The same people who are religious Christians saying "no gays" or "You're an atheists so you're the devil" are the same f***ing people or the descendants of people who used to say "God Hates black people". Shut the f*** up. One thing I missed in Korea was the cool lifestyle. The modo was "Live life until its over. Have fun". Best thing ever. My girlfriend best fan an atheists. They get along fine. Back in Seoul you had Buddhist, Christians, small amount of Jews, atheists, and a tiny amount of Muslim. Did they care? No. I respect other religion because its cool ideas honestly and they have LESS hate for others than my own religion. I even taken ideas from other religion. I believe I'm reincarnation. Told my Uncle. He laughed. Wtf? Its very funny because my uncle thinks he super Christian. Guess what. He also don't know he's a homosexual. How everyone in the entire family know? Look at this. Virgin at 64(?) Have a male roommate who shares a bed. Have topless Men all over his house. Ranging from firefighters to police to Models He bought all the pictures. Seriously people take it to far. Its just a belief. The OP don't believe in God. So? I'm not going to convince him. Just let people live. Rant over Viva Son Goten Viva Jesus. |
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| Krystal | Jul 6 2014, 06:36 AM Post #13 |
Cooking Mama
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Don't those just mean that if a person IS religious, they cannot get in trouble for actions done due to religious beliefs? I could be an idiot or overly optimistic, but I think that it doesn't prevent atheists from taking office, but rather protects those who are religious that take office. |
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| Rockman | Jul 6 2014, 09:15 AM Post #14 |
hoighty-toighty
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The problem is that they would never need to be enforced. Especially in Texas. If you're not Christian, you're not getting votes. It's just that simple. And if they did manage to get noticed enough to get votes, someone would hold that law above their head. I was fired from a job I had in college with the school for being an Atheist. I was the hardest working person there. There were two others in line to get canned before I did, and her reasoning to my face was budget cuts. However a friend later confessed that she was talking about how, "we can't have atheists working here, that's not going to fly, i feel violated by his presence, don't invite him to the christmas party, he doesn't even celebrate it" A job I had before that, my boss and coworker constantly made jabs at the fact that I was atheist. Only after they found out by googling my name that I was. My boss also said that "I would never let you babysit my children, can't have you spreading the devil in my house." The other consistently told me that he'd pray for me, as a joke. I didn't find it funny. My own grandfather, who doesn't realize that my brother is also an atheist, told my brother that he is, "Disappointed in me, disappointed in my parents and how they raised me, doesn't understand how if I was brought up catholic that i'd turn towards "The Devil", and that I have been, "living in sin" by cohabiting with my partners." Luckily my brother tells me everything. I now never bring up my atheism to anyone. I've hidden it on google. Unless asked directly I never speak about religion. People just don't understand and never will. For the record, I treat everyone equally. Especially at work. I know how it feels to be poked at for religion, I wouldn't want that to occur to someone else. It's really s***ty. And I couldn't imagine a more ignorant way to approach people.
Specifically in texas, The last half that states that the person has to acknowledge the presence of a supreme being, is saying that you have to believe in something, and not nothing. |
 JAke is a copyright of Spazo and Pickle Flavored Fudge Pops inc. | |
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| + Pelador | Jul 6 2014, 10:39 AM Post #15 |
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Crazy Awesome Legend
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If somebody is a Muslim or a Jew, do they have a hard time too? |
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