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- Gremmy Thoumeau vs Kaguya Otsutsuki vs Janemba
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| Gremmy Thoumeau vs Kaguya Otsutsuki vs Janemba | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 2 2014, 08:19 AM (7,318 Views) | |
| + Solid Snake | Jul 2 2014, 08:19 AM Post #1 |
滅Are you frightened?
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Gremmy has insight on both his oppositions power. Kaguya cannot absorb any projectiles attacks. Janemba can't nuke the planet but has everything else. Case 2: Janemba is as smart as Gero. Who wins? |
 Shinnozou tomete kureru! ~ Evil Ryu SSJG and SSJ4 Goku Sig Dragon Ball: Ultimate Road Story Naruto and Goku's Adventure Story
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Jul 4 2014, 12:28 AM Post #46 |
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that's just an assumption. There's no evidence to back that up. We still don't know if they can utilize their speed to have fights as fast dbz characters can. Either way, goku dodged lightning in dragon ball. Yes lightning is much slower than light but it's not a gap too big for them to have covered The anime also also tells us how long piccolo and roshi's blasts took to reach the moon. They're definitely faster than light by the buu saga Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Jul 4 2014, 12:29 AM.
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| + Solid Snake | Jul 4 2014, 01:04 AM Post #47 |
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滅Are you frightened?
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I still can't believe Steve is making weak points along with using assumptions to degrade Goku and others. If you read the listed quotes I provided then how could you still hang on to that way of thinking? It's stated that Frieza's Death Beam was a mere flash of light and both Vegeta and Goku could save/ react to it. I won't be stretching it saying Goku, and Frieza's (initially) are light speed in combat by this time and that's Manga-wise. |
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Shinnozou tomete kureru! ~ Evil Ryu SSJG and SSJ4 Goku Sig Dragon Ball: Ultimate Road Story Naruto and Goku's Adventure Story
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| Mihawk | Jul 4 2014, 01:09 AM Post #48 |
 
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You're stretching it absurdly if you think they're near lightspeed in the manga. There's a reason IT is still relevant even in the Buu saga. |
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| + Solid Snake | Jul 4 2014, 01:13 AM Post #49 |
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滅Are you frightened?
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Reread my post man. |
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Shinnozou tomete kureru! ~ Evil Ryu SSJG and SSJ4 Goku Sig Dragon Ball: Ultimate Road Story Naruto and Goku's Adventure Story
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Jul 4 2014, 01:17 AM Post #50 |
 
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Instant transmission isn't light speed its instant so hilariously faster than light lol Piccolo moon buster speed and kai o ken multipliers make them Ftl |
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Jul 4 2014, 02:00 AM Post #51 |
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Why is it so hard to accept that piccolo and roshi's blasts reached the moon in a matter of seconds? I know assumptions are frowned upon in this forum but I mean come on this is a small assumption to the point where it's rediculous(IMO atleast) if you deny it. It's clear as day IMO. There's no lol calcs or assumptions involved with kaioken multipliers too since they're stated to scale linearly with power level. If you want to involve physics ok, but things do not go hundreds of times faster in space and I highly doubt toriyama and a lot of other manga writers think of that stuff when they're writing
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Jul 4 2014, 02:01 AM.
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| Mihawk | Jul 4 2014, 02:13 AM Post #52 |
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There's assumptions involved with the the blast reaching the moon in seconds. It just causes too many issues. If it's stated that's one thing, but if it isn't then we don't bend logic backwards for the sake of calcs. Btw, it can happen in a matter of moments if we have ki having an absurd acceleration rate. It doesn't have to have much initial velocity. And Toriyama not thinking about this works both ways. If we involve him not knowing the possibly physics behind the situation and therefore throw out a logical explanation, one can just as easily throw out something like this as an outlier since he didn't understand the issues it would cause for the beam reaching that fast. |
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| + Steve | Jul 4 2014, 02:32 AM Post #53 |
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
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Yeah Toriyama isn't a physicist I doubt he checked if that was even remotely possible or how it would work before hand. Plus in manga it's still images, we have no idea how long it takes. Also people like Krillin can react to and watch things like Final Flash, does he have MFTL reaction speeds? If they were FTL at all instant transmission would be useless for anything but long distance travel but even Cell who is apparently MFTL couldn't handle it. Cell who has MFTL reaction speeds was too slow to react to the fractions of fractions of fractions of seconds where Goku brought his hands forward to fire the beam, even though everyone there had time to witness it. Weak crap humans reaction speeds = Cell's and anyone else powerful for that matter? If weak people react to the faster characters at all that just shows they don't go that much faster at all. Unless you want to say the fast characters reaction speeds are in fact slower than their speed which makes no sense since they wouldn't be able to use their speed at all without smashing in to everything. Then you have Gohan going as fast as he can to get to school in base which takes him 30 minutes, how large is Earth exactly? Cause if he's anywhere near light speed that journey should take like less than a second unless the Earth is like trillions of metres long and the school happens to be on the opposite side of the planet. Edited by Steve, Jul 4 2014, 02:33 AM.
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 Definitely not a succubus, fear not | |
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Jul 4 2014, 03:10 AM Post #54 |
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Do you guys honestly think the blasts took any longer than a few minutes? I doubt toriyama intended the blasts to take that long. Speed doesn't scale linearly with power levels. It does with kaioken though. We all agree on that. Kaioken shows us that it's not far off though. For example: Goku got 50x more powerful when turned ssj. He was faster than kkx20 goku. So we know he got more than 20x faster. So goku does legitametly get many many times faster by the end of the series. Let the blast take a a few minutes or even longer. I don't see how it's a stretch to say they're at least nearing the speed of light in combat speed |
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| + Solid Snake | Jul 4 2014, 05:34 AM Post #55 |
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滅Are you frightened?
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Don't bother man... I provided evidence that most situations were showing that they have at least light speed reaction and combat speed. I don't no where they get this long distance stuff from, but then they haven't bothered to read CORRECTLY what I said earlier. |
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Shinnozou tomete kureru! ~ Evil Ryu SSJG and SSJ4 Goku Sig Dragon Ball: Ultimate Road Story Naruto and Goku's Adventure Story
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| + Steve | Jul 4 2014, 03:38 PM Post #56 |
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
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There is no evidence, there are never any stated speed feats to confirm that or comparisons. How would fights even happen beyond light speed if you're going faster than light there's no way you can see what you're fighting so that makes 0 sense. Again PL =/= speed or physical strength it's purely related to how powerful their ki is and how much of it they have. Speed and strength definitely seem to be determined by muscle mass in the series not PL. Some evidence: Cell not being able to overpower #16. What are your numbers for their strengths? 'cause Cell must be like 10x stronger at the extreme least. USSj having a speed weakness, at all. If PL was purely all that mattered then Trunks should have been as fast as Initial Perfect Cell because he was around the same PL but much much slower. Why would speed scale differently with PL? They do get faster but not by like an mph for every 1PL... Someone being 100x stronger than you and only 10% faster than you is still huge and more than you can handle, nothing suggests they get 100x faster too. Ever. So yeah there is no evidence for them being lightspeed, there's as much going against it as there is hyperbole and etc going for it. Even if blasts are close to light speed they still have to ready them which means since they're slower than their blasts by far it would be extremely obvious what they're going to do. Especially for someone with precognitive abilities and ridiculous reaction speeds. Reaction speeds >>>>> actual speed in a fight. If someone moves as fast as a bullet is fighting someone who can catch things 10x faster than bullets, they're going to lose badly. So while Kaguya isn't as fast as DBZ characters, so far as we know, she can just stand there and watch them in slow motion. Janemba's going to fire an attack? Walk in to another dimension. Simple. Sharingan and Byakugan on their own are OP as s***, she has both AND Rinnegan if you don't understand how huge an advantage that is maybe you should read/watch Naruto or look up info on Wiki's, instead of just proclaiming DBZ characters win because they blow up planets or you like DBZ better. Edited by Steve, Jul 4 2014, 03:39 PM.
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Definitely not a succubus, fear not | |
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| * Yu Narukami | Jul 4 2014, 03:46 PM Post #57 |
Izanagi!
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Surely Kaguya could simply send them both into a dimension of her choosing? Unless another dimension warped is in sync with her, they wouldn't be able to get back.
Edited by Yu Narukami, Jul 4 2014, 03:46 PM.
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Jul 4 2014, 03:57 PM Post #58 |
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Janemba>ssj3 goku>>>>>>>>>>base form freiza>>>>>>>>>>>>>>raditz>>>>>>>naruto verse the fact this guy said Kaguya can watch Dbz fighters in slow motion tells me all i need to know lol Trolling at it's finest Kaguya isn't faster than Janemba, isn't stronger ,isn't more durable she get's blitzed and 1 shotted She can't take hits from raditz yet your're going to tell me that she'll beat Janemba lmfao You need to stop overrating her she's really nothing special at all Yeah it's not like these attacks aren't MFTL or anything and would destroy everyone in the naruto verse nope  Edited by King Kakarot, Jul 4 2014, 04:00 PM.
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Jul 4 2014, 04:10 PM Post #59 |
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dbz characters don't have normal humans vision. They see faster things than humans can. Things that are practically teleportation in close quarters are slowed down to them. That's why instant transmission is still relevant I agree that none of those statements mean they're faster than light though I still think it's ridiculous though how so many people deny that piccolo and roshi's blasts reached the moon in a matter of seconds. Do you honestly think it took 20 minutes or something? I don't see how too many issues can come up from assuming something when it's clear as day |
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| EMIYA | Jul 4 2014, 04:27 PM Post #60 |
"I am the bone of my sword."
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Alright there's a few things we need to get settled down because the same thing is happening here. 1.) Lightning based speed was anticipated in Early Dragon Ball when Goku was training with Popo and really most people in naruto aren't matching up to such speeds. It's only those select few which are going up in teleportation speeds (whether this is through raw speed or technique alone) 2.) We have a rule int his forum regarding the battle sections and that's point that you can' use your own assumption of calculations in a series unless its specifically given to you. The whole blast reaching the moon business is a obscene term because this gives us nothing to work on in terms of speed when regarding the manga. We have no way to know both the time it took the blast, the distance between them (and the distances in Dragon ball are implied to be much smaller than in the real universe as well) or anything like that. 3.) Janemba's high end strengths and speeds only get him so far in this fight. If Kaguya is already on or has surpassed Naruto's speeds of teleportation, then Janemba's own speed has been reduced significantly from here. His reality warping powers are also incredibly insignificant compared to Gremmy. I'm not sure on how much about Kaguya but Gremmy literally has the power to one shot Janemba if he wants to. The first round when Janemba is just as Janemba is incredibly in favor of the other two. Janemba is without knowledge of his opponents or his abilities and Janemba can't defeat or avoid that which is imagined. There's no way for him to block getting his brain turned into a cookie or I assume perhaps block getting sent to some other dimension of sort. He's completely unprepared for these notions. This is why the second round Janemba has a better chance. He's smart, he's got what we may infer knowledge or intelligence on the other two and isn't as likely to stick around and let them do as they please. He can hopefully react before Gremmy decides to imagine something and mind you even that would be difficult. The power of thought is much faster than the power of movement. Do you honestly think Janemba's going to just start one shotting them before they can react the moment the fight starts in the first round? He certainly didn't do that in the movie. All it takes from Gremmy alone is a thought. One single little thought that could change the entire battle in that complete instant and there's no way to tell when it'll come. There's almost no way Janemba in the first round is going to be prepared for that and has no way to avoid or block it. The second round is the best chance Janemba has. |
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