Kaio-ken and Double Kaio-ken

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Kaio-ken and Double Kaio-ken
Tweet Topic Started: Jul 1 2014, 03:49 PM (486 Views)
~~Professor Gohan~~	Jul 1 2014, 03:49 PM Post #1
Posts: 0 Group: GTFO Member #6,938 Joined: November 2, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	What do you think? What do ya go with? Quote: The narrator explains here how Son Goku’s Kaiō-Ken technique works. The normal Kaiō-Ken doubles Goku’s battle power. So what does the Kaiō-Ken x2 that Goku goes on to use against Vegeta do? Well, to skip ahead a bit, the Kaiō-Ken x10 is said to increase Goku’s strength ten times. In addition, Goku’s Kaiō-Ken x4 battle power at this point is given in Daizenshuu 7 as being 32,000, four times his regular power of 8,000. So if the Kaiō-Ken x10 increases his power time ten and the Kaiō-Ken x4 increases it four-fold, you’d think the Kaiō-Ken x2 would likewise double his power, but that’s what the narrator says the regular Kaiō-Ken does. This would imply that regular Kaiō-Ken and Kaiō-Ken x2 are one and the same, but Goku seems to imply that they’re different things, since he tries one and then the other in a futile attempt to gain the upper hand against Vegeta. It would seem that this is one of Toriyama’s mistakes.



SuperSaiyan1993	Jul 1 2014, 03:52 PM Post #2
Super Saiyan among Super Saiyans Posts: 3,294 Group: Member Member #7,044 Joined: December 7, 2011 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragonball Z, Avatar	It has to be a mistake. I always thought Kaio-ken was 1.5 x one's battle power until someone apprised me of this. It makes more a lot more sense this way though as Goku did treat KKx2 as it was a higher level
	We Super Saiyans are in a league of our own.


+ Pelador	Jul 1 2014, 03:54 PM Post #3
Crazy Awesome Legend Posts: 25,663 Group: Legend Member #4,634 Joined: December 12, 2009 Gender Not Specified Country None Favourite Anime HunterxHunter What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Dragonball	Goku also uses Kaiokenx1 against Ginyu to raise his battle power to 180,000. So yes it's probably an error.
	http://www.youtube.com/user/jonjits


sekzee	Jul 1 2014, 03:59 PM Post #4
Posts: 1,336 Group: Member Member #11,101 Joined: March 25, 2014 Gender Not Specified What Browser do you use? Firefaux Favourite Manga Nein	Goku also uses an extended Kaioken against Ginyu to raise his power level to 180,000...never done before, and never to be repeated again...after stated to work in bursts... Kaioken = 1.5x Kaioken x2 = 2x That is what I will go by because that is what makes sense.



+ Clearin	Jul 1 2014, 04:03 PM Post #5
Posts: 12,580 Group: Elite Member Member #6,372 Joined: June 18, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country United Kingdom	Goku didn't try the Kaioken (x2) twice to gain an upperhand on Vegeta. He uses it once to gain the upper hand, then Vegeta powers up, and Goku uses it to dodge one of Vegeta's attacks, and then he says Kaioken x2 can't keep up with Vegeta. The second time he used it was merely to dodge an attack and the quote of Goku saying he can't keep up with it is somewhat unrelated to that use of it. I'm not sure why he only says "x2" in that one example, out of universe I'm guessing Toriyama just didn't realse he didn't put the x2 before, in-universe it's just a something Goku added, I mean it doesn't really change anything.



SSJ	Jul 1 2014, 04:04 PM Post #6
Posts: 16,377 Group: General Member #8,258 Joined: September 8, 2012 Gender Female Country Sweden Favourite Anime Psycho Pass, Steins;Gate, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Favourite Manga One Piece, Berserk, Rurouni Kenshin, Gantz	Kaioken = Kaioken x2 I wouldn't put much into what Goku said. If he was only 1.5x stronger (12,000), he wouldn't have been able to touch Vegeta. The gap would be too large.



* Yu Narukami	Jul 1 2014, 04:15 PM Post #7
Izanagi! Posts: 12,330 Group: Retired Staff Member #6,446 Joined: July 3, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country None	Chapter: 229 (DBZ 35), P1.1 Narrator: “Vegeta's strength has greatly surpassed what Goku had figured on...! That power was such that not even the Kaio-Ken, which doubled Goku's battle power, could give Goku the upper hand... What will you do?! Goku!!" I'm sure the narrator would've made some sort of distinction if Kaioken and Kaioken x2 weren't the same



+ Kaboom	Jul 1 2014, 04:27 PM Post #8
Posts: 1,927 Group: Elite Member Member #9,984 Joined: August 24, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon Ball What Browser do you use? Chrome Favourite Manga One Punch Man	I'm thinking the "x2" was only inserted to set up the imminent use of a x3.



sekzee	Jul 1 2014, 10:50 PM Post #9
Posts: 1,336 Group: Member Member #11,101 Joined: March 25, 2014 Gender Not Specified What Browser do you use? Firefaux Favourite Manga Nein	Well, here is the other thing... Goku uses Kaioken. Vegeta is much stronger than Goku anticipated. Goku @ ~ 16,000 < Vegeta Vegeta than does a massive power up. Later we learn Vegeta's max on Earth was 18,000. 16,000 < Vegeta < 18,000 = Massive power up?



Gracek90	Jul 2 2014, 07:42 AM Post #10
Posts: 566 Group: Member Member #10,535 Joined: November 27, 2013 Gender Male	In case of people who can supress their ki? Indeed. Besides up untill this moment, Vegie was in relaxing state, so he didn't output all of his energy.
	http://www.allegro-szablon.pl


+ Pyrus	Jul 2 2014, 08:04 AM Post #11
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	They're the same thing. This "1.5x" ideal has always been fatuous to me, even back in the old MFG days.
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