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- Ssj multipliers and ssj vs kaioken
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| Ssj multipliers and ssj vs kaioken | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 28 2014, 08:48 AM (1,453 Views) | |
| + Ssj3vegito96 | Jun 28 2014, 08:48 AM Post #1 |
 
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I used to use 50x ssj multiplier for buu saga but not anymore. In the buu saga I believe it's only around 3.75x base power. The reason is the kili system. Ssj goku was 3000. Base goku was around the power of yakon who was 800. I know the counter argument that daizenshuu says 200-300 kili can blow up a planet and saiyan saga vegeta could destroy a planet which means it's not a linear system. First off, the daizenshuu is 3rd party merchandise. Secondly, they got that from the anime when dabura says it. So for all we know the kili system is just a system for really strong fighters and saiyan saga vegeta could have less than 1 kili. Now that that's out of the way, what about kaioken? I only have one problem with the ssj multiplier being this low. I understand kaioken is a lot more strain and doesn't last long so it's not as efficient. But wtf, so now kkx20 goku can beat ssj2 goku and one shot ssj1 goku? It's pretty late and I'm tired I might be a little off. Anyway. And to top it off, kaioken scales linearly with power level unlike ssj. Again, I know ssj forms last longer and are more efficient but goku was able to use kkx20 for a while to fight evenly with frieza. So we know he can use it continually in a fight. And buu saga goku being way stronger, is capable of way more than kkx20. Why did goku stop using kaioken? It seems like by the time the buu saga comes around, if the ssj multiplier really is that low now, kaioken might be better. Why is kaioken not being used anymore when it's clearly really strong still and might be stronger than ssj? What do you guys think of all this? |
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| Dankness Lava | Jun 28 2014, 12:37 PM Post #2 |
Dankness Forever
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I guess once they determine a technique unworthy, it remains that way. That's the only reason I have. |
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| + ThePrinceOfSaiyans | Jun 28 2014, 12:53 PM Post #3 |
魔王子
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I think an interesting explanation for a potential drop that would remove Kaioken from the equation would be that when Goku mastered SSJ, his base form went through an abnormal increase. As a result all multiplicitive techniques dropped in effectiveness. For example, if Goku were to use Kaioken x20 now, it would only be a 2 times increase now or something. |
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| + Kaboom | Jun 28 2014, 01:24 PM Post #4 |
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I've yet to be presented with any good enough reason to not just use the universal and traditional 50x boost for Super Saiyan. |
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| SSJ | Jun 28 2014, 01:27 PM Post #5 |
 
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The Kiri system is crap anyways. It hit its limit and exploded, so there is no indication.
Edited by SSJ, Jun 28 2014, 01:28 PM.
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Jun 28 2014, 01:32 PM Post #6 |
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Kiri is supposed to mean, "helluva 'lot of power" or something like that. So we can't use Kiri for this. I think runnin' with 50x is as simple as you can get. But that's my opinion. 5-x throughout stands cool with me. |
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| * Ketchup Revenge | Jun 28 2014, 01:33 PM Post #7 |
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
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People are missing the point of Kaioken and special techniques like it. Even if Goku can gain more power using the Kaioken over using Super Saiyan, the power he gains via Kaioken poses a risk to his body. Not to mention that unlike Super Saiyan, Kaioken can only be sustained for a small period of time while there is no known time limit on Super Saiyan, and it exhausts him if he uses it repetitively. It's similar with techniques like the Genki Dama, Makankosappo, and Kikoho. Even though they are by far the character's strongest or most dangerous attack, the time in which they need to be formed, or the risk it poses to the person using it isn't always the wisest option. This is why these characters (Goku, Piccolo, and Tenshinan) resort from using them, and opt to use weaker, and/or less risky techniques that may give a similar effect. It's the exact same situation where Goku opted out of using the higher grades of Super Saiyan, and instead focused on mastering the original Super Saiyan form. Even if Super Saiyan is less than 5x during the Boo Arc, it would still be safer to use than a Kaioken. Not to mention that the negative effects of Super Saiyan had been overcome, and there's no evidence of this happening with Kaioken. So to answer the question, Goku stopped using it because he figured that Super Saiyan was over-all better, even if it wasn't as strong. It's the exact same thing with the Kamehameha vs Genki Dama argument. Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Jun 28 2014, 01:35 PM.
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| + Pyrus | Jun 29 2014, 01:48 AM Post #8 |
 
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Someone once suggested that Kaioken became too unstable to use after Super Saiyan was introduced, because Goku hadn't practiced with it in so long. |
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| + Pelador | Jun 29 2014, 01:51 AM Post #9 |
Crazy Awesome Legend
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Is it possible that Super Saiyan simply replaced Kaioken? In other words, if Goku ever attempted to use it again he would simply turn super saiyan instead. This could be much like how Gohan's potential all came out at once when he tried to turn Super Saiyan. |
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| + Pyrus | Jun 29 2014, 01:52 AM Post #10 |
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I don't think that's quite possible since Kaioken isn't a transformation. It's simply something he learned to do, unlike Super Saiyan which is a biological configuration. |
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Jun 29 2014, 02:00 AM Post #11 |
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It's best to keep Super Saiyan at 50x imo. Not worth the headaches. |
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| + ThePrinceOfSaiyans | Jun 29 2014, 02:07 AM Post #12 |
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魔王子
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50 times can also cause headaches. |
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| Mihawk | Jun 29 2014, 02:19 AM Post #13 |
 
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So if you called it something else could it work along with 50x? Such that Kaioken is just one of the methods to multiply your bodies strength closer to its potential, and SSJ multiplies your built in max Kaioken by some amount. Maybe there are other methods out there of pushing your body strain higher. Max Kaioken x some constant = SSJ multiplier or Max Kaioken x (depending on who you are multiplier here) = SSJ multiplier or Max Kaioken x (mastery of SSJ form) = SSJ multiplier Could work, imo. |
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Jun 29 2014, 02:44 AM Post #14 |
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The only issue is that Gotenks debacle. Everything else is managable, |
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Jun 29 2014, 03:41 AM Post #15 |
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I don't remember that but scouters broke a lot too if the kili device actually broke |
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