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| Base Gotenks Discussion | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 26 2014, 01:11 AM (5,673 Views) | |
| Vertical | Jun 26 2014, 09:46 PM Post #16 |
 
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The thing is... I do see things simply... and very clearly. Sadly, I seem to be one of the few who lay their power chains before taking any numerals into account. And if I cannot get the math to work... then it's the math that needs to change, not my interpretation. A lot of people allow their interpretations to be swayed by numbers that were neither present, nor implied within the manga. It frustrates me greatly. Even this topic was born from p facing a mathematical dilemma and bending his interpretation to fit (though at least he's conflicted about it). |
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Jun 26 2014, 10:27 PM Post #17 |
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Yep. Literally the only issue in the entire manga that's a mathematical impossibility and is an issue very gaggish in its nature as well. So considering that, why ruin the whole story for two gag scenes that create a mathematical impossibility? |
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| Vertical | Jun 26 2014, 10:43 PM Post #18 |
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But it's not impossible >.< (nor the only issue). I would rather believe that "your synchronization during a fusion dance directly influences the effectiveness of said dance" and apply such a thought mathematically than outright disregard statements/implications made within the manga. That's the choice I make... but it's not the only answer. |
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| + Havoc_Wreaker | Jun 26 2014, 11:00 PM Post #19 |
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Popcorn
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base gotenks(pre) was implied to be not different from the adult ssj2 he could be a bit stronger,around the same to a bit weaker as for base gotenks post rosat, i dont agree with the notion of him being stronger then his pre ssj self what a lot of people forget about is ALL of gotenks is irrelevant even goten and trunks separately till he hit ssj3 so whatever his placing is it doesnt matter relevant to the story with the exception of ssj 3 as for goten and turnks, they had gains in the rosat probably minor- avg, just that fusion makes the results exponentially better, so theres not a big difference between pre and post kids but if u had to put a chain, for me anyways here ssj3 gotenks>ssj gotenks>ssj3 goku>ssj pre gotenks> base gotenks post>base gotenks pre |
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| Vertical | Jun 26 2014, 11:11 PM Post #20 |
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Except you'd have to toss out Piccolo's claim of [Post-RoSaT] Base Gotenks having a chance... when he'd already deemed [Pre-RoSaT] SSJ Gotenks as without one (his inability to measure Buu does not make his measurements of Gotenks incorrect). The implied chains are as follows: [Post-RoSaT] Base Gotenks > [Pre-RoSaT] SSJ Gotenks >~ SSJ3 Goku > [Pre-RoSaT] Base Gotenks > SSJ2 Adults and [Post-RoSaT] Kids >~ [Pre-RoSaT] Kids If you can't figure out the math to make that work (based on your other interpretations)... then try harder or don't play with math. |
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| * Ketchup Revenge | Jun 26 2014, 11:31 PM Post #21 |
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
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I've always considered Pre Base Gotenks to be on the same tier as SSj (Boo Arc) Goku and Vegeta. SSj Gotenks (Pre) would be around SSj3 Goku, perhaps a bit stronger. The problem with judging Gotenks's power is that a lot of his feats are gag feats. Therefore it's hard to compare him to anyone with serious feats. |
 The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him. | |
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| Saberoph | Jun 26 2014, 11:39 PM Post #22 |
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First off, making things complex like Vertical isn't looking thinking too far into it... it's called looking at every possible angle and trying to come up with the most logical explanation, even if it doesn't make sense to one persons interpretation. Also, you don't always get things right the first time, that's why this is all best guess past the Frieza arc... sometimes you have to go back and rework things. I may not agree with everything Vertical says, but I do respect him and enjoy debating with him for that very reason... he really thinks about things and we don't agree. To me that makes things fun. As for the Topic. I also place Post ROSAT Base Gotenks above his Pre ROSAT SS self, which I believe is a little above SS3 Kakarrot. So, I also have things like this... Post Base Gotenks>SS Gotenks>Pre Base Gotenks=>SS3 Kakarrot=Chibi Boo>Fat Boo. Now, I know I'm different because I have Goten and Trunks making more gains than Gotenks, because the boys had More time out of Fusion than in it. They only had 30 minutes, then they had to wait an hour, then repeat. They're also little kids, they're not going to sit around for an hour and do nothing, also with them being kids they're not going to completely pay attention to the clock... children lose track of time all the time and when they're having fun they don't pay attention to it at all. Goten and Trunks were play fighting before all of this happened, and they were already almost equal to Gohan, sure he didn't train for 7 years, but Gohan was still very powerful. So, with Goten and Trunks having the motivation they had and knowing what we do about two people who are close to or equal to in power and knowing what we do about how quickly hybrids increase when training for a goal, it's more than logical and likely for them to make crazy gains in their short amount of time in the ROSAT. Besides... Gohan had the largest training gain in the Boo arc and all he did was swing around a sword for one day. I know the title is about Gotenks but Gotenks is Goten and Trunks and this is also about his ROSAT gains. Also, I feel what's established about hybrids and training with a partner and them having more time out of training than in it is often ignored and dismissed go Gotenks gets the gains while keeping the boys very weak, just because they're not liked. Edited by Saberoph, Jun 27 2014, 12:10 AM.
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Batman Arkham Games Discussion. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/ Q&A With Me. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0 http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/ My Broli Idea. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201 Dragon Ball Paramountcy. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/ Intellectual savior of the masses. 
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| + Havoc_Wreaker | Jun 26 2014, 11:40 PM Post #23 |
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Popcorn
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i have tossed out that claim cause it makes no sense and has nothing to do with the story cause gotenks is irrelevant without ssj3 to add piccolo wonders why they aren't going ssj before hand and before they even fuse during the process he says '' at least fusion went alright'' yeah cause thats his biggest concern at the time he should be flipping out but no, and when the perform it successfully theres a rays of light coming off of him like he his some god but hes not he was fodder just like when piccolo thought ssj gotenks could beat super buu as well he was wrong both times ,it was gag oh he got stronger he can win nah he just got stronger and has no hope thats all it was, both times to be more precise gotenks powered up a whole lot but i would like to think that it was gag cause it makes no sense other wise and is irrelevant regardless and vertical i havent tried do make anything work with numbers ever actually, so try reading better next time and theres nothing wrong with my other opinions too, so dont get to high on ur horse there |
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| Vertical | Jun 26 2014, 11:56 PM Post #24 |
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Just a passing comment here; Goten and Trunks are usually denied large gains because Piccolo is still concerned as they fused. I don't think people would do it simply out of spite. I actually said math... but whatever. Also, I had nothing to say about your opinions on anything else... and was only ever referring to your dismissal of Piccolo's statement. Perhaps instead of attacking my ability to read... Anyway, if math isn't the issue... then why does the situation "make no sense"? And if I simply don't agree with a statement, I can throw it aside? 
Edited by Vertical, Jun 26 2014, 11:57 PM.
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| Saberoph | Jun 27 2014, 12:04 AM Post #25 |
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True The Namek is worried, but the world and possibly the universe is at stake and they're children... of course he would be worried. Also, at this point they were being raised in times of peace and only had one month of real training and that training was only to win a Budokai and not save the Earth or the Universe. So with this being the first time carrying that kind of weight and training for something like this... I would be rolling my eyes if that line wasn't in there. |
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Batman Arkham Games Discussion. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/ Q&A With Me. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0 http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/ My Broli Idea. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201 Dragon Ball Paramountcy. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/ Intellectual savior of the masses.
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| + Havoc_Wreaker | Jun 27 2014, 12:13 AM Post #26 |
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Popcorn
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numbers and math are one in the same and my mistake u said other interpretations, so u it seemed like u did man im throwing it away just cause why would piccolo be happy about the fusion going right why is that even worth mentioning and not pooping himself about how gotenks is gonna get owned, cause he said that statement before the other about gotenks powa none of it makes much sense and is a sticky situation imo |
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| SSJ | Jun 27 2014, 12:25 AM Post #27 |
 
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So now we can just throw out any statement from Piccolo that we like? Seems legit. |
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| Saberoph | Jun 27 2014, 12:29 AM Post #28 |
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I know I only throw out statements if it's contradicted by more evidence or physical evidence, or if there's a load of already established evidence saying the opposite... because one statement isn't enough to overthrow a list of established evidence. |
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Batman Arkham Games Discussion. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/ Q&A With Me. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0 http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/ My Broli Idea. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201 Dragon Ball Paramountcy. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/ Intellectual savior of the masses.
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| Vertical | Jun 27 2014, 12:32 AM Post #29 |
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Fair enough... but that's very general overall concern. The concern he shows at that moment is more relevant to the immediate situation... explicitly stating his worries regarding their pre-fusion forms. That being said, if they had gained a decent amount of strength... anywhere near what Gotenks is implied to have gained... Piccolo shouldn't be concerned. So, giving them gains is fine but anything substantial (especially anything approaching Gotenks' gains) is questionable at best.
 In my opinion, the relief he displays in response to the fusion being successful (pre-power statement) is just fleeting hope or even resignation... not actual faith in what's to come from it. |
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| SSJ | Jun 27 2014, 12:34 AM Post #30 |
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Exactly. I see nothing that proves Base > SSJ wrong here. Boo's ki is a lie, so Piccolo probably couldn't get a great read on Boo in the RoSaT. Prior to entering though, he was able to sense his power, and knew SSJ Gotenks wouldn't match up. Gotenks transforms in base, and voila, now he might have a chance. I don't know what gets contradicted here. Just because Gotenks got beaten easily by Boo doesn't mean that Piccolo was wrong. Boo' ski is difficult to sense when he is not pure.
Edited by SSJ, Jun 27 2014, 12:34 AM.
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