sekzee

Jun 25 2014, 05:02 PM

1) Vegeta admits witnessing Fusion AND SSJ3. People still argue Goku couldn't be sensed even though we know it reached the Holy Sphere of the Kais which is entirely separate from the cosmos that includes Heaven.

2) Goku could've been lying about not being used to the form and taking the extra time because he was stalling for time. The other two instances he transforms, he does it in an instant. Either Goku was lying, or his little bout with Fat Buu helped him reach new heights with the transformation.

Pick one.

Super Saiyan

Jun 24 2014, 10:29 PM

xGOKUdaFALLENx

Jun 24 2014, 05:41 PM

What about the saying "Buu's ki is a lie?" line?

Boo's ki was a lie when he was being suppressed or powered up by other beings. Now he is pure, meaning his ki is as well.

Pyrus

Jun 25 2014, 05:17 PM

sekzee

Jun 25 2014, 05:02 PM

1) Vegeta admits witnessing Fusion AND SSJ3. People still argue Goku couldn't be sensed even though we know it reached the Holy Sphere of the Kais which is entirely separate from the cosmos that includes Heaven.

2) Goku could've been lying about not being used to the form and taking the extra time because he was stalling for time. The other two instances he transforms, he does it in an instant. Either Goku was lying, or his little bout with Fat Buu helped him reach new heights with the transformation.

Pick one.

You're missing a finger, doll. Try to find it.

The first point's covered in those links. Look harder, it's there, I promise!

Second point is conjecture, and each new transformation is always given spotlight for dramatic effect. Super Saiyan, Grade 2, Grade 3, Super Saiyan 2. The third level wouldn't be any different. Goku wasn't used to Super Saiyan when he fought Freeza but he transformed in an instant when Freeza betrayed his trust and attacked him from behind; Gohan transformed to Super Saiyan 2 in an instant despite it only being his second time ever using the form. Toriyama doesn't drag out transformations if we've seen it already. It's a very simple pattern, my little buddy, come on.

1) You fail to address the first point properly.

2) Out-of-universe explanation. Try again.

Havoc_Wreaker

Jun 25 2014, 05:58 PM

suppression is ur theory that no one can unless mastered so....
people have not been full strength all the time, look at android saga and the saiyans they were clearly watered down
and could get much stronger and they had not mastered the form yet..........

kp u still dont get it do u, those are previous situations and scenario u missed the ending
and u ignored my point and vegetas comments
what u fail to realize is this is the ENDING all previous placing and statmetns and scenes or whatever are rectified with this scene and comments, it gets all changed, how can vegeta who already sensed goku 3 times like u mention and
say there unimaginably stronger then thought previously? and only mean wow there just as strong as i thought?
that makes no sense?

and again, u take take ur fan theory about suppression and i will take my definitions and in manga statements
and again i will go by the ending manga that changes the power placements

and also my insults are not really intended im just saying it how it is, if i have offended u i apologize
if anything bypassing the word filter and stuff is much worse and also intended

OMG, Havoc. You're pruning. Seriously, stop, it's like you're turning into a wrinkled old lady and I'm your cane.

I mean, it ain't exactly a fan theory, it's supported by every other instance in the manga. I can't be certain of what you mean by "watered down," but there's not one instance where a Saiyan showed the ability to power up or down while transformed except for Trunks' Grade 3 -- and that was merely pumping more ki into the muscle, not the same thing -- prior to mastering the form. A huge part of mastering the original Super Saiyan form was gaining the ability to do such a thing.

Every time we go to this gym we do the same exercises. Ignoring isn't my thing; getting to the bloody meat is what I crave. That's why Vegeta's wanting to see Super Saiyan 3 for himself, 'cause he ain't had a decent look of it, mate. Why does he need to see something he's sensed already? Like a god-king once asked, was he interested in Goku's hair length in the form? 'Cause that's what you'd get if you hit the four-wheeler down this route, young lad.

This is one melted brain that will never understand why you go the extra lengths to change things that don't need to be changed at all. You've got your explanation for why Goku was unsure of beating Fat Boo at first, you've got your explanation for his performance against said Boo, and you've got your explanation for Vegeta's comments. But you want to essentially retcon these things, and I've'nt the faintest idea why! Why, Havon-san?! WHY!?! Does it bring you some sort of sick pleasure, you freak? Do you get your jollies off hurting innocent manga pages? I need to understand you to help you.

tl;dr we're repeating the exact same debate that's been linked to already, using almost the exact same evidence in the exact same way, except this is a lot more fun.

Sex

 

1) You fail to address the first point properly.

Quote:

 

2) Out-of-universe explanation. Try again.

sekzee

Jun 25 2014, 06:24 PM

Most of the constipation came from the anime scenes.

Not entirely. I had a hand in that...ooh baby.

http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8583880&t=8348696

There's also this whoooooooooooooooooooooole thread if you feel like reading a redundant 39 pages.

http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8348696/1/

Quote:

 

He transformed at least more than once before visiting the Living Realm for a day, yet no one in the cosmos can sense him. Then he transforms on Earth and his power reaches even the Kaioshin Realm. Hmm...

Interesting thought, ain't it?

sekzee

Jun 25 2014, 06:49 PM

So let's keep this to in-universe explanations/rationalizations, why don't we?

Havoc_Wreaker

Jun 25 2014, 07:10 PM

-snip-

Alex ClownBoss

Jun 26 2014, 09:44 AM

Kid Boo is almost on equal to Goku. Fat Boo is 90% of him.

Alex ClownBoss

Jun 26 2014, 09:44 AM

Kid Boo is almost on equal to Goku. Fat Boo is 90% of him.