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Base Kids & No. 18; The Discussion Thread
Topic Started: Jun 7 2014, 09:23 PM (8,864 Views)
Shazam
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The Knight Who Say Ni

im not gonna read 5 pages but i will say this:
they almost never suppresed themselves. dont forget they are 7 and 8 years old, they might be strong but they are still little kids.
when they gave that huge shot on 18# it was combined power of both of them.

i say they are on an early stage of SSJ. far from mastered but still controlled. maybe equal to vegeta vs wierd looking androids or a bit stronger.
*android 18# fought both of them ssj transformed unsuppressed and kept going (struggling).
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Base Kids suppressing was never a discussion anyway. We question whether Android 18 was suppressing or not.
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Shazam
Oct 28 2014, 12:32 PM
im not gonna read 5 pages but i will say this:
they almost never suppresed themselves. dont forget they are 7 and 8 years old, they might be strong but they are still little kids.
when they gave that huge shot on 18# it was combined power of both of them.

i say they are on an early stage of SSJ. far from mastered but still controlled. maybe equal to vegeta vs wierd looking androids or a bit stronger.
*android 18# fought both of them ssj transformed unsuppressed and kept going (struggling).
Like Emmeth said there was never an aguement that the kids supressed themselfs, the only think we might have said is that they were restrcicted in the costume, Android 18 is the one we argue if she was supressed.

On topic though, i believe Android 18 ~> Base Trunks ~> Base Goten, but when they turn SSJ they easly stomp her at a serious fight.
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Shazam
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Orochimaru
Oct 28 2014, 01:00 PM
Shazam
Oct 28 2014, 12:32 PM
im not gonna read 5 pages but i will say this:
they almost never suppresed themselves. dont forget they are 7 and 8 years old, they might be strong but they are still little kids.
when they gave that huge shot on 18# it was combined power of both of them.

i say they are on an early stage of SSJ. far from mastered but still controlled. maybe equal to vegeta vs wierd looking androids or a bit stronger.
*android 18# fought both of them ssj transformed unsuppressed and kept going (struggling).
Like Emmeth said there was never an aguement that the kids supressed themselfs, the only think we might have said is that they were restrcicted in the costume, Android 18 is the one we argue if she was supressed.

On topic though, i believe Android 18 ~> Base Trunks ~> Base Goten, but when they turn SSJ they easly stomp her at a serious fight.


i dont think 18 can suppress herself. she doesnt have ki.



also, i see no proof they are stronger then her.
they couldnt damage her 2 on 1 and she was able to avoid them from close range a very power attack that used both trunks AND goten power.
Edited by Shazam, Oct 28 2014, 05:44 PM.
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She could put less effort than she normally would though, same thing SSJ3 Goku did against Fat Buu.
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Shazam
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Oct 28 2014, 05:41 PM
She could put less effort than she normally would though, same thing SSJ3 Goku did against Fat Buu.
she used the same power see used against vegeta or even more.
in that battle, we can easily see how hard she tried and she tried very hard. im certain without any doubt she gave everything she got against him.
also her personallity doesnt allow her to be so merciless. she is not goku, she is closer to vegeta but less cruel and proud.
Edited by Shazam, Oct 28 2014, 05:56 PM.
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That is definently possible, dont get me wrong i believe android 18 used her max as well, i just said even though she cant supress herself, she could still put less effort.
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Shazam
Oct 28 2014, 05:53 PM
Orochimaru
Oct 28 2014, 05:41 PM
She could put less effort than she normally would though, same thing SSJ3 Goku did against Fat Buu.
she used the same power see used against vegeta or even more.
in that battle, we can easily see how hard she tried and she tried very hard. im certain without any doubt she gave everything she got against him.
Are you sure she tried hard? I don't see her definitely trying hard.
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It's common sense that no one on Senshi level goes full out at the Tenkaichi Budokai. The safety of the spectators is priority at that location. It's different if you're fighting in the mountains somewhere where few people roam, and if you're fighting for your life or the sake of Earth.

TB at this point in time is more a display of skill than it is power. Power is a factor, but it's the same thing as wrestling with a sibling or even sparring. You have no intention of hurting them or hurting anyone around you, your focus is just on besting them with your own ability.

The most violent fight that we saw at a Tenkaichi Budokai was Goku vs Piccolo at the 23rd, and the reason why that was so violent and destructive was because Piccolo actually had the intention of killing Goku. Even Spopavitch didn't have the intention of killing Videl, despite him being able to.

The most important factor in fighting at the Tenkaichi Budokai is self control, and the kids, being as young as they are, are less likely to exercise self control. Not to mention that they resorted to Super Saiyan when they realized they couldn't win. This increased their ki ability to a potentially destructive level that could've gotten a lot of people killed.

So, my conclusion is that the kids were trying their hardest against 18, but due to the costume, their ability was limited. However, due to their frustration, I really don't believe that they were matched neck to neck with 18. Their frustration made them more likely to use their full power, which didn't seem to offset 18 at all.
18 didn't seem perturbed until she dodged SSj Trunks's ki blast, which could've killed her or destroyed the stadium.
Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Oct 28 2014, 06:22 PM.
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Alex D. Boss
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Why does it keep saying that? "She's suppressed", I mean. Is it trying to convince itself? Is it stating something? Does it think everyone is incapable of seeing what's happening? How did it crawl in here?
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supersaiyangodpowers
Oct 17 2014, 01:34 AM
@ ^

Seriously, why bother with direct evidence? Dragonball is fast-paced action/comedy.



I'm not advertising another forum, I'm posting this link because I think people over there have answered this question.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=25243&start=140

Check it out.

Son Gohan and helV are good debaters
Why bother with direct evidence? Maybe because it's the most direct form of evidence we can use to prove a point....? I mean that question kinda answers itself. Some folks over at Kanzenshuu simply like to add or see things that aren't there. 18 is suppressed you say? Would you mind pointing me to where that's implied? I mean, wasn't it sorta laid out when someone was suppressed back in the good ol' manga? Certain folks over at Kanzenshuu, or should I say people who support the notion that Freeza is superior to the base Saiyajins(members of Kanzenshuu is just too general), are simply trying to find excuses to support their belief, which I suppose they can do, but in a debate sorta setting, these conjectures won't hold up, and as a result, you're better off keeping your opinion to yourself. Also, hleV is the same guy that believes that Pre Kami Piccolo is weaker than base Goku and Vegeta....
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That's completely impossible, since Gero pre-energy absorptions tanked base Goku, while post-energy Gero was curb-stomped by Piccolo.

Things aren't consistent, hence the confusion. Goku and Tenshinhan both dodge Gero's eye lasers. Goku could've blocked it had he known that the androids are actually weak. He then jumps and hits Gero so he would stop destroying the city. The actual fight hasn't started yet.


hleV
 
RandomGuy96
 
Not to mention illogical, as Piccolo just made multi-fold gains in his last two rounds of training.



Why didn't Goku's power increase nearly as much as Piccolo's?
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Oct 30 2014, 03:03 PM.
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"

18 can't "suppress" because she has no ki to suppress.

She can physically hold back though. Anyone can.
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18 isn't even scared when the kids go SSJ, only when they fire the blast...I wonder why ^.^
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SuperSaiyanQ
Oct 28 2014, 11:44 PM
18 isn't even scared when the kids go SSJ, only when they fire the blast...I wonder why ^.^
I don't think she expected their power to be so developed. There's also no evidence that 18 can sense ki. She couldn't 7 years earlier because 16 was the one who was leading them to Goku.

There's no doubt they could've killed her if they hit her. Not to mention that Trunks was holding back as a Super Saiyan.

However, you also need to consider the fact that they felt the need to go Super Saiyan to beat her. The only thing they did was make a ki blast, they didn't even bother attempting to fight her.
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Oct 28 2014, 11:54 PM
The only thing they did was make a ki blast, they didn't even bother attempting to fight her.
The costume would offer the same restrictions with or without SSJ.
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