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Base Kids & No. 18; The Discussion Thread
Topic Started: Jun 7 2014, 09:23 PM (8,866 Views)
sekzee
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You seem to not be reading my posts.

BEFORE Gohan transforms, he held back vs. Cell.
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Saberoph
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Itachi
Jun 13 2014, 07:12 PM
Comprehensive Breakdown

#18 can treat SSJ Vegeta like Satan but she is unable to treat the kids the same way. She can't tank their blows and is forced to block and dodge.
Thanks, I read the proof and bookmarked it.

You know... you'd think there would be a feature on this site where you could bookmark/favorite a Thread or Post, or both.

@sekzee: I did, my bad.

Gohan had no desire to fight, but when he did Transform, he was completely different. However, he wasn't like that on Namek, he wasn't like that in the Boo arc. Gohan didn't know how to bring out and control his hidden power in the Cell Games, until it happened... that's pretty obvious.

However, the fight with No. 18 does show how powerful Goten and Trunks are.
Edited by Saberoph, Jun 13 2014, 07:46 PM.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

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* Ketchup Revenge
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"

Master Saberoph
Jun 13 2014, 07:30 PM
Itachi
Jun 13 2014, 07:12 PM
Comprehensive Breakdown

#18 can treat SSJ Vegeta like Satan but she is unable to treat the kids the same way. She can't tank their blows and is forced to block and dodge.
Thanks, I read the proof and bookmarked it.

You know... you'd think there would be a feature on this site where you could bookmark/favorite a Thread or Post, or both.

@sekzee: I did, my bad.

Gohan had no desire to fight, but when he did Transform, he was completely different. However, he wasn't like that on Namek, he wasn't like that in the Boo arc. Gohan didn't know how to bring out and control his hidden power in the Cell Games, until it happened... that's pretty obvious.

However, the fight with No. 18 does show how powerful Goten and Trunks are.
I don't disagree with you showing how strong they were against 18, but I have a seriously hard time believing that she was going all out at the tournament. I don't believe anyone was, except for Goten and Trunks, but their ability was restricted by the costume.
However, I don't buy into the fact that Trunks's punching power would've been affected too greatly by the costume. He didn't manage to make 18 flinch at all.

Goten and Trunks went Super Saiyan to try to take her out with ki. They didn't try to fight her one-on-one in Super Saiyan.

This to me points to her being noticeably stronger than both of them, even if their movements were restricted by the costume.
Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Jun 13 2014, 08:13 PM.
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Saberoph
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But here's the thing... Goten and Trunks weren't even going all out when they faced each other, we know this because later on they power up at the look out where they didn't when fighting each other or with No. 18.

Also, isn't that downplaying them, since Goten gave Gohan so much trouble that he had to fly up to even get away from him, and in later scans of them sparring show them at full power and sweating which is a clear sign of them being not only in the same range, but close to or equal in power. So, for Goten and Trunks to not be holding back, then Gohan wouldn't be at any point before going SS2.

Goten has been shown to be extremely close to Gohan in power and Trunks is a little above Goten, so those three are almost equal.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

Intellectual savior of the masses.
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Mihawk
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She wasn't going all out against Vegeta either yet she was able to tank his kick easily to intimidate him. She does this later on with Satan too in the tournament to intimidate him into forfeiting. Now when we come to the kids she's forced to dodge and block their blows despite them being held back so they shouldn't be able to have the radius to give out full kicks like Vegeta did.

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Saberoph
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Yeah, that's kind of my point... none of them were going all out, they all agreed not to during the Budokai, and later we know that even as Super Saiyans Goten and Trunks still didn't give it their all. I'm not just referring to their fight, but against No. 18 too.

And again, to have Gohan not going all out, is to mean both Goten and Trunks weren't either, with them being so close in power.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

Intellectual savior of the masses.
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p123
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Goten and Trunks are using their Resting Super Saiyan states against 18 and each other.
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+ Emmeth
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I Yoeri

I wanted to ask what you think about Daizenshuu's tidbit about Mighty Mask fighting on-par with C18 :)
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Emmeth
Aug 29 2014, 08:31 PM
I wanted to ask what you think about Daizenshuu's tidbit about Mighty Mask fighting on-par with C18 :)
It's not enough evidence to support the idea that Goten and Trunks are around as strong as #18. You can fight on par with someone while suppressed.
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EMIYA
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I don't know if your asking someone else or overall Emmeth but I'll answer anyways.

I think the Daiz. is basically taking something it directly sees in the manga and putting thought to it. And yes, what we see is the kids fighting fairly well with No. 18. By no means are the kids losing horribly for sure and that's really all they have to go with.
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+ Kyouks
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The exact wording of the entry is "demonstrating strength on par with No. 18's," meaning that it's saying that the strength they showed is equal to No. 18's, period. That's harder to twist in favor of the suppression argument (though that's not to say it'd be much easier if it wasn't worded that way).

Either the entry is wrong, because they're not shown to be all that even, or the entry is compensating for the fact that only No. 18 is able to use her legs or something.
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ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Aug 29 2014, 08:36 PM
Emmeth
Aug 29 2014, 08:31 PM
I wanted to ask what you think about Daizenshuu's tidbit about Mighty Mask fighting on-par with C18 :)
It's not enough evidence to support the idea that Goten and Trunks are around as strong as #18. You can fight on par with someone while suppressed.
I agree with this.

It's not like 18 is having any issues fighting Mighty Mask or anything. She's not exerting herself at all.
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StrawHatCrew
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It doesn't say she is suppressed though.
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StrawHatCrew
Sep 4 2014, 02:21 AM
It doesn't say she is suppressed though.
Thank you for that riveting tidbit of information :)

I am aware of this, but I think it's only healthy to speculate. Would end a bit of mystery of AT confirmed or dismissed the specualtion.
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Oooooh. I just noticed something interesting:
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At the Youth Division of the 25th Tenkaichi Budoukai, he defeated Goten and won the championship. He and Goten then participated in the Adult Division as Mighty Mask, demonstrating strength on par with No. 18's, until she managed to see through their disguise. He passed through the finals at the 28th Tenkaichi Budoukai, but the tournament's final results are unknown.

I can buy the argument for suppression if this little tidbit were to say that Goten and Trunks were fighting on par with No. 18, but the word strength would imply they were around as strong as her.
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