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Base Kids & No. 18; The Discussion Thread
Topic Started: Jun 7 2014, 09:23 PM (8,867 Views)
Alex D. Boss
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Gohan already stated that the Kids might outstrip him soon if he doesn't train further, that says enough for me.
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* Ketchup Revenge
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"

Master Saberoph
Jun 12 2014, 12:02 AM
True, I got that instance mixed up with something else, thanks.

The point still stands that Goten and Trunks powered up at the Lookout where they didn't during their fight with each other or with No. 18.
They had no reason to power up to at the Tenkaichi Budokai because they weren't even supposed to go SSj in the first place. A simple transformation to minimal Super Saiyan power would be enough to throw the other (who was in base) for a loop.

In addition to this, Goten told Trunks to not put his full power into the ki attack, and Trunks agreed. There's no known reason for this, but I would guess that they both knew that a Super Saiyan blast to 18 would either kill her or injure her severely.
It's also possible that they had the safety of the spectators in mind.

Also we need to consider that the only reason why they powered up at Kami's Palace was because Goku was trying to gauge their ki in order to teach them to synchronize it to perform fusion.
Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Jun 12 2014, 01:24 AM.
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* Yu Narukami
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Izanagi!

The Assassin
Jun 12 2014, 01:19 AM
Master Saberoph
Jun 12 2014, 12:02 AM
True, I got that instance mixed up with something else, thanks.

The point still stands that Goten and Trunks powered up at the Lookout where they didn't during their fight with each other or with No. 18.
They had no reason to power up to at the Tenkaichi Budokai because they weren't even supposed to go SSj in the first place. A simple transformation to minimal Super Saiyan power would be enough to throw the other (who was in base) for a loop.

In addition to this, Goten told Trunks to not put his full power into the ki attack, and Trunks agreed. There's no known reason for this, but I would guess that they both knew that a Super Saiyan blast to 18 would either kill her or injure her severely.
It's also possible that they had the safety of the spectators in mind.

Also we need to consider that the only reason why they powered up at Kami's Palace was because Goku was trying to gauge their ki in order to teach them to synchronize it to perform fusion.
Was she using 13.517% of her full power? How do you measure how much she was holding back?
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Saberoph
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The Assassin
Jun 12 2014, 01:19 AM
Master Saberoph
Jun 12 2014, 12:02 AM
True, I got that instance mixed up with something else, thanks.

The point still stands that Goten and Trunks powered up at the Lookout where they didn't during their fight with each other or with No. 18.
They had no reason to power up to at the Tenkaichi Budokai because they weren't even supposed to go SSj in the first place. A simple transformation to minimal Super Saiyan power would be enough to throw the other (who was in base) for a loop.

In addition to this, Goten told Trunks to not put his full power into the ki attack, and Trunks agreed. There's no known reason for this, but I would guess that they both knew that a Super Saiyan blast to 18 would either kill her or injure her severely.
It's also possible that they had the safety of the spectators in mind.

Also we need to consider that the only reason why they powered up at Kami's Palace was because Goku was trying to gauge their ki in order to teach them to synchronize it to perform fusion.
Well, yeah I know they held back their ki blast. The only reason I didn't bring that up was because I wasn't even bringing up that scene, only that they didn't power up against No. 18.
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"

Naked Snake
Jun 12 2014, 01:25 AM
The Assassin
Jun 12 2014, 01:19 AM
Master Saberoph
Jun 12 2014, 12:02 AM
True, I got that instance mixed up with something else, thanks.

The point still stands that Goten and Trunks powered up at the Lookout where they didn't during their fight with each other or with No. 18.
They had no reason to power up to at the Tenkaichi Budokai because they weren't even supposed to go SSj in the first place. A simple transformation to minimal Super Saiyan power would be enough to throw the other (who was in base) for a loop.

In addition to this, Goten told Trunks to not put his full power into the ki attack, and Trunks agreed. There's no known reason for this, but I would guess that they both knew that a Super Saiyan blast to 18 would either kill her or injure her severely.
It's also possible that they had the safety of the spectators in mind.

Also we need to consider that the only reason why they powered up at Kami's Palace was because Goku was trying to gauge their ki in order to teach them to synchronize it to perform fusion.
Was she using 13.517% of her full power? How do you measure how much she was holding back?
She seems to think of this more as a sparring match, which that and actual fighting aren't even nearly the same thing.
Sparring is simply an exploitation and comparing of skill. You don't power up during a sparring match because actually laying the smack down on your opponent isn't the point of the exercise, and you aren't thinking in that context mentally.

We also need to consider that these characters need to hold back for the safety of the spectators.

It's like when you're wrestling your sibling. You're doing it because you want to see what you've got against them, not because you intend to hurt them.

18 only got serious when Trunks went Super Saiyan and almost severely damaged her with that ki blast.
Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Jun 12 2014, 02:14 PM.
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sekzee
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Master Saberoph
Jun 12 2014, 12:10 AM
He only comments on Trunks being stronger... not by a lot, but by much I believe.

However, that still doesn't take away from the fact that before the Budokai Goten was almost even with Gohan and he had to fly to get away from Goten. Also, during the later panels we see of Goten and Gohan, they're aura's are going all out and both of them are sweating too.
Remember that time Cell fought Goku while he was heavily suppressed and still showed signs of effort and fatigue?

It is kinda like that.

Oh, and remember that time Gohan surpassed EVERYONE in a year?

Yeah, it is kinda like that.
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Saberoph
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I might still be half asleep, but what the hell are you saying?
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sekzee
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Gohan showing signs of fatigue while training with Goten does not equate to Goten = Gohan.

Gohan claiming he would be surpassed soon does not equate to Goten = Gohan.
Edited by sekzee, Jun 13 2014, 04:34 PM.
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Saberoph
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That's why I said nearly even. It's shown if someone has to evade another and is given lots of trouble, then they are close in power.

Also, that scan of Goten and Gohan training, is established before in earlier arcs if two people with their aura's flaring and sweating that they're going all out on each other.
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
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sekzee
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Please, once again, prove to me how Cell was going all-out vs. Goku in their fight.
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Saberoph
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Cell said and shows us that he had more power, but Cell was showing that he was trying against Kakarrot.

Gohan never implies or says he was holding back, and he was trained to go all out.

Unless you have a scan and quote from Gohan saying he was holding back.

If not, then your argument about Cell doesn't work.
Edited by Saberoph, Jun 13 2014, 06:45 PM.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
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http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
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sekzee
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Gohan transforms. Boom. He was not at full power.

Gohan was trained to go all out? Is that why he was holding back against Cell before he transformed? Boom.

Burden of proof is on you this time.
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+ Kaboom
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I like the idea that Cell's "full power" was actually a power-up similar to Grade 2, where he was able to forcefully pump himself up with extra power to a reasonable degree. The auras match, and when he powered up further in desperation against Gohan, he resembled Grade 3. This would fit with what Karin said about Goku compared to Cell, where he guessed that Cell would be "a little bit" stronger.
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Mihawk
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Comprehensive Breakdown

#18 can treat SSJ Vegeta like Satan but she is unable to treat the kids the same way. She can't tank their blows and is forced to block and dodge.

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Saberoph
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sekzee
Jun 13 2014, 06:59 PM
Gohan transforms. Boom. He was not at full power.

Gohan was trained to go all out? Is that why he was holding back against Cell before he transformed? Boom.

Burden of proof is on you this time.
I'm still waiting on my scan.

As for Gohan and Goten, when I said aura going, that was for their scans of them sparring later on, not when Goten first Transforms.

When Goten first Transforms in front of Gohan, Goten only has an aura when he first Transforms, but not when they spar, so of course they weren't going 100% before Gohan can Train Goten properly he needs to gauge his power properly, not beat him to a pulp and as far as Gohan knows Goten doesn't know jack s*** about fighting and has never been in a real fight before.

As for the fight with Cell, Gohan wanted to make Cell suffer plain and simple, Gohan had the ability to destroy Cell at any time he wanted, but he wanted to make Cell suffer from all the horrible things he did.

So, unless you have a scan of Gohan saying he drew the fight out because he was taking it easy on Cell, I would be more than happy to see it.

You have been challenged to provide physical proof to back your claims... it's trolling if you don't back them up, so let's see it.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

Intellectual savior of the masses.
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