Emmeth

Jun 7 2014, 02:55 PM

Pyrus

Jun 7 2014, 02:19 PM

That's one interpretation from the ancient scribblings of the Seganese. It's not seen often, but it's been brought into debates between scholars before, though it isn't favorable.

No wonder. Going canonically, for what GT's concerned anyway, wouldn't one assume Baby Vegeta is stronger than SSJ3 Vegetto, since Goku says he has the 'strongest ki he has even sensed' ?

Quote:

 

"After Goku and Vegeta use a merging item to merge, they become Vegito! They can furthermore become a Super Saiyan, making them Super Vegito! After the two strongest people merge, they become the greatest master in the universe! Perhaps even stronger than Super Saiyan 4!".

Gogetto

Jun 7 2014, 04:37 PM

Emmeth

Jun 7 2014, 02:55 PM

Pyrus

Jun 7 2014, 02:19 PM

That's one interpretation from the ancient scribblings of the Seganese. It's not seen often, but it's been brought into debates between scholars before, though it isn't favorable.

No wonder. Going canonically, for what GT's concerned anyway, wouldn't one assume Baby Vegeta is stronger than SSJ3 Vegetto, since Goku says he has the 'strongest ki he has even sensed' ?

He said Baby's ki is the most powerful ever felt. He never felt the ki of SSJ3 Vegito, only Super Vegito. So this applies to his SSJ, but not his SSJ3.

TConnor_Demonic

Jun 7 2014, 04:40 PM

Gogetto

Jun 7 2014, 04:37 PM

Emmeth

Jun 7 2014, 02:55 PM

Pyrus

Jun 7 2014, 02:19 PM

That's one interpretation from the ancient scribblings of the Seganese. It's not seen often, but it's been brought into debates between scholars before, though it isn't favorable.

No wonder. Going canonically, for what GT's concerned anyway, wouldn't one assume Baby Vegeta is stronger than SSJ3 Vegetto, since Goku says he has the 'strongest ki he has even sensed' ?

He said Baby's ki is the most powerful ever felt. He never felt the ki of SSJ3 Vegito, only Super Vegito. So this applies to his SSJ, but not his SSJ3.

If he can feel one of his forms, why not the others? If he can remember the power he had why is it he only can feel one form if he can transform into the others?

Gogetto

Jun 7 2014, 05:00 PM

TConnor_Demonic

Jun 7 2014, 04:40 PM

Gogetto

Jun 7 2014, 04:37 PM

Emmeth

Jun 7 2014, 02:55 PM

Pyrus

Jun 7 2014, 02:19 PM

That's one interpretation from the ancient scribblings of the Seganese. It's not seen often, but it's been brought into debates between scholars before, though it isn't favorable.

No wonder. Going canonically, for what GT's concerned anyway, wouldn't one assume Baby Vegeta is stronger than SSJ3 Vegetto, since Goku says he has the 'strongest ki he has even sensed' ?

He said Baby's ki is the most powerful ever felt. He never felt the ki of SSJ3 Vegito, only Super Vegito. So this applies to his SSJ, but not his SSJ3.

If he can feel one of his forms, why not the others? If he can remember the power he had why is it he only can feel one form if he can transform into the others?

It's simple, you can not feel the ki of a person who never existed.

TConnor_Demonic

Jun 7 2014, 05:05 PM

Gogetto

Jun 7 2014, 05:00 PM

TConnor_Demonic

Jun 7 2014, 04:40 PM

Gogetto

Jun 7 2014, 04:37 PM

Emmeth

Jun 7 2014, 02:55 PM

Pyrus

Jun 7 2014, 02:19 PM

That's one interpretation from the ancient scribblings of the Seganese. It's not seen often, but it's been brought into debates between scholars before, though it isn't favorable.

No wonder. Going canonically, for what GT's concerned anyway, wouldn't one assume Baby Vegeta is stronger than SSJ3 Vegetto, since Goku says he has the 'strongest ki he has even sensed' ?

He said Baby's ki is the most powerful ever felt. He never felt the ki of SSJ3 Vegito, only Super Vegito. So this applies to his SSJ, but not his SSJ3.

If he can feel one of his forms, why not the others? If he can remember the power he had why is it he only can feel one form if he can transform into the others?

It's simple, you can not feel the ki of a person who never existed.

Yet Goku can make a judgement that Vegetto would've made Kid Boo an easy win, Goku can make a judgement that Fusion would've been ineffective against Beerus. But hey, If Goku is just making blind guesses then go right ahead. But Goku tends to make sure to get his facts straight first before making any sort of power judgement. Goku knows how SSJ2 works, he knows how SSJ3 works. Hell he's one of the soul owners of SSJ3, but to downright downplay his ability to sense a form he has had the most time with is ludicrous. Especially when he can recall a fusion's power.

TConnor_Demonic

Jun 7 2014, 05:19 PM

So he's making statements out of his a*** when he says Beerus is at the point to where Fusion is ineffective when there's Potarra's abundant during the movie? Yet it's an entirely different different deal with Baby Vegeta when Goku makes a statement like that? Seems like blissful ignorance to me. He hasn't felt SSJ3 Vegetto so how would he know Beerus is above fusion?

Gogetto

Jun 7 2014, 05:21 PM

TConnor_Demonic

Jun 7 2014, 05:19 PM

So he's making statements out of his a*** when he says Beerus is at the point to where Fusion is ineffective when there's Potarra's abundant during the movie? Yet it's an entirely different different deal with Baby Vegeta when Goku makes a statement like that? Seems like blissful ignorance to me. He hasn't felt SSJ3 Vegetto so how would he know Beerus is above fusion?

The two contexts are not the same. With Baby, he says he surpasses all the powers he has ever felt. With Bills, he said that a merger would have no chance against him.

TConnor_Demonic

Jun 7 2014, 05:23 PM

Gogetto

Jun 7 2014, 05:21 PM

TConnor_Demonic

Jun 7 2014, 05:19 PM

So he's making statements out of his a*** when he says Beerus is at the point to where Fusion is ineffective when there's Potarra's abundant during the movie? Yet it's an entirely different different deal with Baby Vegeta when Goku makes a statement like that? Seems like blissful ignorance to me. He hasn't felt SSJ3 Vegetto so how would he know Beerus is above fusion?

The two contexts are not the same. With Baby, he says he surpasses all the powers he has ever felt. With Bills, he said that a merger would have no chance against him.

How can he make such a judgement? You're implying that Goku can guage where SSJ2 and SSJ3 Vegetto would be when he takes into account whether or not it would be effective against Beerus, implying he could sense it at some point. Yet with Baby Vegeta you're saying he can't. Make up your mind. Otherwise Goku's making blind guesses and we shouldn't take the statement regarding Beerus and Fusion seriously.

TConnor_Demonic

Jun 7 2014, 05:41 PM

-This would be fine until...He says a fusion can't beat Beerus. Goku's ALWAYS made power judgements with what he can feel or has felt. And if SSJ3 Vegetto didn't exist at all how in the world is he going to make an accurate power judgement? This isn't a matter anymore of me being out of context, this is a matter of what you're saying is going against Goku's character. I'll ask once more, how is it Goku is not taking into account SSJ3 Vegetto when he says Baby Vegeta is the biggest ki he's ever sensed, yet when he's saying fusion is ineffective then he's taking into account SSJ3 Vegetto, implying he's had to sense SSJ3 Vegetto at one point?

Gogetto

Jun 7 2014, 05:49 PM

TConnor_Demonic

Jun 7 2014, 05:41 PM

-This would be fine until...He says a fusion can't beat Beerus. Goku's ALWAYS made power judgements with what he can feel or has felt. And if SSJ3 Vegetto didn't exist at all how in the world is he going to make an accurate power judgement? This isn't a matter anymore of me being out of context, this is a matter of what you're saying is going against Goku's character. I'll ask once more, how is it Goku is not taking into account SSJ3 Vegetto when he says Baby Vegeta is the biggest ki he's ever sensed, yet when he's saying fusion is ineffective then he's taking into account SSJ3 Vegetto, implying he's had to sense SSJ3 Vegetto at one point?

Well, I'll explain again more clearly:

Context against Baby : Goku compares the power of Baby with those he has ever felt before.

Context against Bills : Goku made a power estimate.

You do not see that the contexts are different ? In the first context, he speaks of the powers that have already existed. That of SSJ3 Vegeto has NEVER existed ! In the latter context, a comparison with the power of Vegito and the Bills. Here we can imagine he's talking about SSJ3 Vegeto.

TConnor_Demonic

Jun 7 2014, 05:54 PM

Gogetto

Jun 7 2014, 05:49 PM

TConnor_Demonic

Jun 7 2014, 05:41 PM

-This would be fine until...He says a fusion can't beat Beerus. Goku's ALWAYS made power judgements with what he can feel or has felt. And if SSJ3 Vegetto didn't exist at all how in the world is he going to make an accurate power judgement? This isn't a matter anymore of me being out of context, this is a matter of what you're saying is going against Goku's character. I'll ask once more, how is it Goku is not taking into account SSJ3 Vegetto when he says Baby Vegeta is the biggest ki he's ever sensed, yet when he's saying fusion is ineffective then he's taking into account SSJ3 Vegetto, implying he's had to sense SSJ3 Vegetto at one point?

Well, I'll explain again more clearly:

Context against Baby : Goku compares the power of Baby with those he has ever felt before.

Context against Bills : Goku made a power estimate.

You do not see that the contexts are different ? In the first context, he speaks of the powers that have already existed. That of SSJ3 Vegeto has NEVER existed ! In the latter context, a comparison with the power of Vegito and the Bills. Here we can imagine he's talking about SSJ3 Vegeto.

I'd be fine with your different contexts argument if it didn't involve implications of Goku sensing SSJ3 Vegetto when making a statement that Fusion would be ineffective against Beerus. Goku makes power judgements based on what he's felt right? Logic and Goku's Character would dictate that he's making a statement that SSJ3 Vegetto would stand no chance because he's felt his power. I don't see why we suddenly throw that out in Baby Vegeta's case. It seems more like you're taking things for what they mean literally without taking into account Goku's character and his past when making power judgements.

You don't have to respond if you don't want to.

But u'd make me sad

Gogetto

Jun 7 2014, 06:07 PM

TConnor_Demonic

Jun 7 2014, 05:54 PM

Gogetto

Jun 7 2014, 05:49 PM

TConnor_Demonic

Jun 7 2014, 05:41 PM

-This would be fine until...He says a fusion can't beat Beerus. Goku's ALWAYS made power judgements with what he can feel or has felt. And if SSJ3 Vegetto didn't exist at all how in the world is he going to make an accurate power judgement? This isn't a matter anymore of me being out of context, this is a matter of what you're saying is going against Goku's character. I'll ask once more, how is it Goku is not taking into account SSJ3 Vegetto when he says Baby Vegeta is the biggest ki he's ever sensed, yet when he's saying fusion is ineffective then he's taking into account SSJ3 Vegetto, implying he's had to sense SSJ3 Vegetto at one point?

Well, I'll explain again more clearly:

Context against Baby : Goku compares the power of Baby with those he has ever felt before.

Context against Bills : Goku made a power estimate.

You do not see that the contexts are different ? In the first context, he speaks of the powers that have already existed. That of SSJ3 Vegeto has NEVER existed ! In the latter context, a comparison with the power of Vegito and the Bills. Here we can imagine he's talking about SSJ3 Vegeto.

I'd be fine with your different contexts argument if it didn't involve implications of Goku sensing SSJ3 Vegetto when making a statement that Fusion would be ineffective against Beerus. Goku makes power judgements based on what he's felt right? Logic and Goku's Character would dictate that he's making a statement that SSJ3 Vegetto would stand no chance because he's felt his power. I don't see why we suddenly throw that out in Baby Vegeta's case. It seems more like you're taking things for what they mean literally without taking into account Goku's character and his past when making power judgements.

You don't have to respond if you don't want to.

But u'd make me sad

Indeed, it may rely on the power of SSJ3 Vegeto and to imagine the power that would have SSJ3 Vegeto. But imagining and feeling power are two different things.

Against Bills, he can imagine the power that would Vegeto. And if SSJ3 Vegeto was more powerful than Bills, Goku would not have said that even merging, it can not win.

Against Baby, he speaks only of the powers he felt, not that he imagined.

TConnor_Demonic

Jun 7 2014, 06:13 PM

Goku's character would imply that he's sensed SSJ3 Vegetto beforehand before making his statement about Beerus being superior to Vegetto.