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SSJ Multipler; *50 or *10
Topic Started: Jun 1 2014, 10:12 AM (3,857 Views)
p123 Jun 6 2014, 03:12 AM Post #91
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Where did you get the idea for " latent reserve " ?
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Goddess Ultimecia Jun 6 2014, 03:14 AM Post #92
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 Shouldn't Gohan's SSJ and SSJ2 be vastly above Goku and Vegeta's if we go by who has the larger Latent Reserve?
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* Ketchup Revenge Jun 6 2014, 03:16 AM Post #93
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p123
Jun 6 2014, 03:12 AM
Where did you get the idea for " latent reserve " ?
I believe it was stated somewhere, possibly in an interview. That's what my conversation with Pyrus was about.

Also you have to wonder where the power for Super Saiyan comes from. It simply doesn't come out of nowhere.

Quote:
 
Shouldn't Gohan's SSJ and SSJ2 be vastly above Goku and Vegeta's if we go by who has the larger Latent Reserve?

Not neccessarily. There's no evidence that Gohan was stronger than either of them in Super Saiyan when they both appeared as Super Saiyan 2. Not to mention that nothing in the context of power is ever mentioned about Super Saiyan 2 other than that it's 2x SSj.
It makes sense because Toriyama simply states that SSj 2 and 3 are simply powered up forms of Super Saiyan (he stated this in his most recent interview). From what he's suggesting, they aren't truly different forms of Super Saiyan.
Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Jun 6 2014, 03:22 AM.
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p123 Jun 6 2014, 03:17 AM Post #94
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I'd like to see this interview. It's just a random interview floating around or is it in some sort of guide that contains Dragonball material? And who is being interviewed? The creator of the series?
Edited by p123, Jun 6 2014, 03:18 AM.
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Saberoph Jun 6 2014, 03:26 AM Post #95
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The Assassin
Jun 6 2014, 01:54 AM
Pyrus
Jun 6 2014, 01:49 AM
Question.

If Super Saiyan isn't entirely linked to a Saiyan's normal state, what is it linked to? Does the power come out of nowhere essentially?
If I can find where it says it, it says somewhere that Super Saiyan is drawn from a Saiyan's latent reserve. And since everyone's reserve is different, it only seems to make sense that everyone's Super Saiyan boost is different as well.

However, of course this boost is also influenced by training in the form itself.

It seems to make sense to me considering that Gohan went from below Super Saiyan, to the strongest Super Saiyan within a year's time. We also know that his reserve is staggering compared to everyone else.
I even agree with this. So, could I have already been on to something?

http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8480156/1/#new

Because for quite some time I've always looked at the SS forms drawing out part of the Saiyans Potential/Dormant power little by little with each form... of course not as much as SS3 and SS4, but still enough to notice it.

As for Gohan may not having a larger boast, he has shown to have a larger Potential/Dormant power than Kakarrot and Vegeta, and possibly even combined or close to it.
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Goddess Ultimecia Jun 6 2014, 03:34 AM Post #96
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The Assassin
Jun 6 2014, 03:16 AM
p123
Jun 6 2014, 03:12 AM
Where did you get the idea for " latent reserve " ?
I believe it was stated somewhere, possibly in an interview. That's what my conversation with Pyrus was about.

Also you have to wonder where the power for Super Saiyan comes from. It simply doesn't come out of nowhere.

Quote:
 
Shouldn't Gohan's SSJ and SSJ2 be vastly above Goku and Vegeta's if we go by who has the larger Latent Reserve?

Not neccessarily. There's no evidence that Gohan was stronger than either of them in Super Saiyan when they both appeared as Super Saiyan 2. Not to mention that nothing in the context of power is ever mentioned about Super Saiyan 2 other than that it's 2x SSj.
It makes sense because Toriyama simply states that SSj 2 and 3 are simply powered up forms of Super Saiyan (he stated this in his most recent interview). From what he's suggesting, they aren't truly different forms of Super Saiyan.
Didn't Gohan have a larger latent reserve during the Boo arc though? :o_O:

If we are to go by that and the fact that Goku and Gohan had already mastered the SSJ state shouldn't Gohan have been stronger than the rest of the Boo arc SSJ's?
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Vertical Jun 6 2014, 07:43 AM Post #97
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 Do not be mistaken into thinking that AT planned for any solution to his SSJ system. It's not like what I'm about to type will be what he had planned... because as far as anyone can tell; he had no plan.


Here's the theory I've been rolling with for a few years now... though I have yet to share it because I seem to have poor explanation abilities.

It was created to encompass my interpretations of the manga, including, though possibly not limited to:
  • Gero's claim
  • Vegeta's claims (pre-tournament)
  • Implied Gotenks chain
  • A reason to train in different forms
  • Individualism within the same system (which is implied by the fact that no one bar the almighty Kaioshin-sama seems to be able to predict a Saiyan's maximum based on their Base strength)
So I was trying to think of an analogy to aide this theory... and this is what I came up with (though it'll probably be so poorly articulated that there'd be no point in it anyway):

Consider these comparisons:
Base = Walking
SSJ = Jogging
SSJ2 = Running
SSJ3 = Sprinting

Now, let's compare a Sprinter and a Jogger.

The Sprinter spends all his time training his sprinting... and he gets better and better at it. Clearly, his overall fitness/abilities increase but because he's focusing on sprinting, it will increase the most.

The Jogger spends all his time training his jogging (hah).... and he gets better and better at it. And as above, his overall fitness improves but his jogging improves me most.

Numerically, we end up with something like:

Sprinter:
Walk: 10
Jog: 20
Run: 30
Sprint: 60

Jogger:
Walk: 10
Jog: 30
Run: 40
Sprinting: 50

(ignore the addition implications, it simply helps the example)

The more time you spend training one... the better you become at it... and although the others may benefit, it will be in no way as large a benefit as your core training. That being said though, obviously each form would still be some amount superior to the previous one.


...so with my poor explanation skills on display, I'll move onto mathematical examples:

Mathematically, SSJ (for example) would not be represented by an operator, or even multiple operators... it would be represented by a set of rules (all numbers are for example purposes only):

#1: The ratio of SSJ:Base can never exceed 50:1
#2: The ratio of SSJ:Base can never fall below 2:1
#3: The initial trainable boost for SSJ is 150 million

So, this would mean that whenever a person turns SSJ for the first time, they unlock a trainable reserve of 150 mill. If gaining 150 mill exceeds a 50:1 SSJ to Base ratio, then they would instead only gain 50x their base (though the excess would continue to exist, it would simply not be accessible.... yet). If gaining 150 mill would not be enough to at least double their power, then they would instead double their power (and that would be their starting reserve). So:

Base: 3 mill
Initial SSJ: 150 mill

Base: 10 mill
Initial SSJ: 160 mill

Base: 500 mill
Initial SSJ: 1 bill

Then we get to strength gains...

For every 10 points of power you gain while training in one form, you gain 1 point in all others.

So, you can train your SSJ boost like an addition system, completely separate from your other forms (though not).

All of this together gives your SSJ transformation a maximum of 50x Base, a minimum of 2x Base, and if it ever falls below 10x Base, it cannot surpass it again.

Though these are not the exact rules I use, the system works for me and my beliefs. Obviously that does not mean it will work for everyone... but hopefully it might help people who have been struggling to find an answer but never got beyond "decreasing multipliers".
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