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| SSJ Multipler; *50 or *10 | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 1 2014, 10:12 AM (3,859 Views) | |
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Jun 6 2014, 12:17 AM Post #76 |
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There definitely seems to be a set boost. What suggests there isn't? |
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| * Ketchup Revenge | Jun 6 2014, 01:43 AM Post #77 |
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
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Because the multiplier complex is entirely non-canon. It wasn't in the manga, therefore we can't assume it is correct. However, Vegeta (in canon) states that Saiyan power can't be calculated, and given the fact that (pre Freeza Arc) we had no way of predicting what kind of boosts that the Saiyans were going to get from training or Zenkai, there's no reason to believe that he was lying when he said this. A set multiplier for Super Saiyan would be a calculation. That goes against this fact about Saiyans that Vegeta states. Not to mention every Saiyan is seen to train in Super Saiyan, which doesn't make any sense if the only way to increase power would be to train in base. This suggests that Super Saiyan power is not linked entirely to base power. In addition to this, every Saiyan is different. It doesn't make sense to have a set boost for everyone. It could be a set boost for all Saiyans, just not the same for everyone all the way across the board, or even the same boost every time a person transforms. Training itself would obviously off-set this boost. Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Jun 6 2014, 01:45 AM.
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 The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him. | |
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| + Pyrus | Jun 6 2014, 01:49 AM Post #78 |
 
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Question. If Super Saiyan isn't entirely linked to a Saiyan's normal state, what is it linked to? Does the power come out of nowhere essentially? |
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| * Ketchup Revenge | Jun 6 2014, 01:54 AM Post #79 |
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
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If I can find where it says it, it says somewhere that Super Saiyan is drawn from a Saiyan's latent reserve. And since everyone's reserve is different, it only seems to make sense that everyone's Super Saiyan boost is different as well. However, of course this boost is also influenced by training in the form itself. It seems to make sense to me considering that Gohan went from below Super Saiyan, to the strongest Super Saiyan within a year's time. We also know that his reserve is staggering compared to everyone else. |
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The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him. | |
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| + Pyrus | Jun 6 2014, 02:04 AM Post #80 |
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That makes a lot of sense. I can't find that piece of information at the moment either. It's not in the Special Attack Dictionary of D7 or the GT Perfect Files. Hm. |
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Jun 6 2014, 02:37 AM Post #81 |
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Vegeta seems to think all forms correlate. He thinks if the Saiyans all fight in base he will still have an advantage. There's never been a shred of evidence so suggest that one character would have a higher base and a lower Ssj then the other. All forms correlate. It's suggested by Kaioshin to regarding the Sword Training. It makes perfect sense and AT isn't complicated enough to think of something like varying boosts. |
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| + Kaboom | Jun 6 2014, 02:47 AM Post #82 |
 
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A basic and universal multiplier keeps things beautifully and blissfully simple. New fan: "How strong does Super Saiyan make you?" Old fan: "Fifty times stronger than normal." New fan: "Oh wow. Okay." Old fan: "And then Super Saiyan 2 makes you twice as strong as that, and Super Saiyan 3 is four times stronger than that." New fan: "Well I didn't ask about those but I guess that's pretty neat." ...Ta-da. Edited by Kaboom, Jun 6 2014, 02:49 AM.
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| + Pyrus | Jun 6 2014, 02:48 AM Post #83 |
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Maybe he didn't think of varying boosts, but perhaps that wasn't his intention. Whatever the plot necessitated is what the boost was, and it became variable as an indirect result of that. |
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Jun 6 2014, 02:52 AM Post #84 |
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Maybe Saga to Saga sure. But people with the varying boosts logic don't see how much that overcomplicates things. Imagine a situation where Goku is stronger than Vegeta as a Super Saiyan yet weaker in Base. It would be completely ridiculous. During the same set of time, they all share the same boost. Hence why it's called Super Saiyan, and not Kaioken x whatever. Super Saiyan is Super Saiyan And it should be the same for each character on a saga to saga basis. |
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| * Ketchup Revenge | Jun 6 2014, 03:01 AM Post #85 |
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
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Given the fact that Vegeta trains in enhanced gravity all the time, I don't see that logic as unreasonable. I think it's entirely possible to have a Saiyan stronger than another Saiyan in base, but weaker than that Saiyan in a transformed state. (@Pyrus: It might have been stated in an interview somewhere.) |
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The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him. | |
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| Vertical | Jun 6 2014, 03:02 AM Post #86 |
 
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More like he never considered the math to begin with. ...I'll post something more constructive when I'm home from work. |
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Jun 6 2014, 03:04 AM Post #87 |
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Exactly my point. I think varying boost actually requires more math than not. Super Saiyan is Super Saiyan. It shouldn't change one's standing. It's not a multiplier , that's the wrong way to put it. It's a transformation. The point being, the standing between Trunks Vegeta and Goku doesn't change whether one is a Super Saiyan or not. That's the logical route here imo. I don't think AT is sitting there with a calculator trying to figure out if Vegeta trained his Base harder or Goku did. That seems way too extreme for me. |
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| * Ketchup Revenge | Jun 6 2014, 03:05 AM Post #88 |
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
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I agree with Vertical. Toriyama surely doesn't care about boosts. All that a person's Super Saiyan had to be in the series was stronger than their Base. This is especially true in the Boo Arc when the forms are simply consecutively stronger than the last one. |
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The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him. | |
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Jun 6 2014, 03:06 AM Post #89 |
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So how does it work. If two characters both have Super Saiyan and start out equal with the same boost, what happens if one fighter only trains in base and the other only trains in Super Saiyan. Who gets the bigger boost? |
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| * Ketchup Revenge | Jun 6 2014, 03:11 AM Post #90 |
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
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If you believe in the "latent reserve" complex, and the possible notion that the two forms are largely unrelated when it comes to power, the actual boost would depend on the user themselves. Logic dictates that the person who trains in Super Saiyan would get a bigger boost, but what if someone else simply has a larger reserve to tap into? It's something to think about. I personally believe that Goku has a bigger boost with Super Saiyan than Vegeta, even though Vegeta physically trains harder. However, Goku's boost is only bigger because he has a larger reserve to tap into than Vegeta does. I think we can look at the Goten and Trunks situation considering that Trunks trains in enhanced gravity with Vegeta, as well as he's a year older, and Goten is only a little bit behind him despite having no enhanced training conditions at all. Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Jun 6 2014, 03:13 AM.
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The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him. | |
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