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SSJ Multipler; *50 or *10
Topic Started: Jun 1 2014, 10:12 AM (3,861 Views)
+ Yusuke Jun 2 2014, 11:53 PM Post #46
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The Assassin
Jun 2 2014, 11:32 PM
I don't agree with your Max Super Boo or Gohan placements, especially the Gohan one.
I'd have Gohan closer to 2x over SSj3 Gotenks, or perhaps even higher, which at a minimum would put him at 38,400,000,000.

The reason to this is because he pawned Super Boo so bad, who was only slightly weaker than SSj3 Gotenks.

EDIT: Also I see what you did, that I forgot to do. I forgot to take away Gotenks's power from my final number for Bootenks, so a 10 multiplier might be able to work.
SSJ3 Gotenks was fooling around with Super Buu. Gotenks got serious towards the end of their fight and was about to blast him into next week before his Fusion time ran out. Also, Trunks states that SSJ3 Gotenks isn't too far off from Ultimate Gohan.

And I only use a 5X SSJ multiplier, not a 10X one lol.

@Super Saiyan

Thing is he says something among the lines of "Oh really? Well i'm about to prove you wrong!" VS saying "Your just overconfident, I already am stronger than you!".

Buuhan tells him he hasn't surpassed him and it's never contradicted showing Buuhan was going easy on Base Vegito (as far as the Anime is concerned). Also, his sensing can't be garbage if he can gauge that a Fusion between Goku and Vegeta fused as an SSJ3 couldn't beat him.
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* Ketchup Revenge Jun 2 2014, 11:59 PM Post #47
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
Yusuke Urameshi
Jun 2 2014, 11:53 PM
The Assassin
Jun 2 2014, 11:32 PM
I don't agree with your Max Super Boo or Gohan placements, especially the Gohan one.
I'd have Gohan closer to 2x over SSj3 Gotenks, or perhaps even higher, which at a minimum would put him at 38,400,000,000.

The reason to this is because he pawned Super Boo so bad, who was only slightly weaker than SSj3 Gotenks.

EDIT: Also I see what you did, that I forgot to do. I forgot to take away Gotenks's power from my final number for Bootenks, so a 10 multiplier might be able to work.
SSJ3 Gotenks was fooling around with Super Buu. Gotenks got serious towards the end of their fight and was about to blast him into next week before his Fusion time ran out. Also, Trunks states that SSJ3 Gotenks isn't too far off from Ultimate Gohan.

And I only use a 5X SSJ multiplier, not a 10X one lol.

@Super Saiyan

Thing is he says something among the lines of "Oh really? Well i'm about to prove you wrong!" VS saying "Your just overconfident, I already am stronger than you!".

Buuhan tells him he hasn't surpassed him and it's never contradicted showing Buuhan was going easy on Base Vegito (as far as the Anime is concerned). Also, his sensing can't be garbage if he can gauge that a Fusion between Goku and Vegeta fused as an SSJ3 couldn't beat him.
Gotenks was filled with rage and still couldn't manage to beat Boo.
And given the fact that he couldn't best Boo, I have a hard time believing that they were that far apart in power. Even though I'm sure that Gotenks was stronger, it doesn't seem like it would've been by that much.
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olliebalollie Jun 3 2014, 12:20 AM Post #48
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Yusuke Urameshi
Jun 2 2014, 11:53 PM
Also, Trunks states that SSJ3 Gotenks isn't too far off from Ultimate Gohan.

And I only use a 5X SSJ multiplier, not a 10X one lol.

Chapter: 498 (DBZ 304), P7.4-5
Context: after Boo disappears
Trunks: “Even if he really is still alive, it doesn’t matter! That jerk was helpless against Gohan! [Gohan] was about as strong as our Super Gotenks!”
Goten: “He was even stronger.”
Trunks: “Really? …Yeah…Just a little bit.”


I think Ultimate Gohan is around +20% to +30% of SS3 Gotenks based on the fact that he totally dominated Super Boo while Boo was doing some damage against SS3 Gotenks - mouth blast, etc. Since this line "[Gohan] was about as strong as our Super Gotenks!" came from a first person point of view whose motive was to boost himself [Gotenks], I'd rather trust what Gohan did to Boo [feats].


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+ Yusuke Jun 3 2014, 12:37 AM Post #49
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The Assassin
Jun 2 2014, 11:59 PM
Yusuke Urameshi
Jun 2 2014, 11:53 PM
The Assassin
Jun 2 2014, 11:32 PM
I don't agree with your Max Super Boo or Gohan placements, especially the Gohan one.
I'd have Gohan closer to 2x over SSj3 Gotenks, or perhaps even higher, which at a minimum would put him at 38,400,000,000.

The reason to this is because he pawned Super Boo so bad, who was only slightly weaker than SSj3 Gotenks.

EDIT: Also I see what you did, that I forgot to do. I forgot to take away Gotenks's power from my final number for Bootenks, so a 10 multiplier might be able to work.
SSJ3 Gotenks was fooling around with Super Buu. Gotenks got serious towards the end of their fight and was about to blast him into next week before his Fusion time ran out. Also, Trunks states that SSJ3 Gotenks isn't too far off from Ultimate Gohan.

And I only use a 5X SSJ multiplier, not a 10X one lol.

@Super Saiyan

Thing is he says something among the lines of "Oh really? Well i'm about to prove you wrong!" VS saying "Your just overconfident, I already am stronger than you!".

Buuhan tells him he hasn't surpassed him and it's never contradicted showing Buuhan was going easy on Base Vegito (as far as the Anime is concerned). Also, his sensing can't be garbage if he can gauge that a Fusion between Goku and Vegeta fused as an SSJ3 couldn't beat him.
Gotenks was filled with rage and still couldn't manage to beat Boo.
And given the fact that he couldn't best Boo, I have a hard time believing that they were that far apart in power. Even though I'm sure that Gotenks was stronger, it doesn't seem like it would've been by that much.
He was filled with rage for that particular moment before going back to his usually goofy self shortly after. Not to mention he had the upper hand towards the end of the fight and was prepared to destroy Buu.

@olliebaba

Thing is, Buu's attacks didn't do much to Gotenks in the long haul. He would keep popping back up and started to get the upper hand in the later portions of the fight. Also, if Trunks is able to humble himself to say that Ultimate Gohan is stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks, I wouldn't question his judgement here.
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olliebalollie Jun 3 2014, 12:50 AM Post #50
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 I understand what you mean, but I was think of what Gohan did to Boo [used his hands to cover Boo's mouth blast] while Gotenks couldn't/or not even try.

Another example is Gohan elbowing Boo to the ground.


Before I continue, what is your definition of isn't too far?


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+ Yusuke Jun 3 2014, 01:41 AM Post #51
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olliebaba
Jun 3 2014, 12:50 AM
I understand what you mean, but I was think of what Gohan did to Boo [used his hands to cover Boo's mouth blast] while Gotenks couldn't/or not even try.

Another example is Gohan elbowing Boo to the ground.


Before I continue, what is your definition of isn't too far?
Like I said before, Gotenks was shown not to take severe damage from Super Buu and was still owning him quite bad towards the end. Not to mention he was fooling around for a lot of the fight.

U.Gohan wasn't a lot more impressive given that he was unable to tank anything Buu threw at him and had to actively defend himself from Buu. I'd say Gohan's performance against Buu was only slightly better than Gotenks's performance towards the end of his fight with Buu.

Generally, not far in my eyes is less than a 1.2X gap because that's the gap where a fighter has a clear cut advantage over his opponent. Numerically, I have...

Super Buu: 13.5
SSJ3 Gotenks: 19.2
Ultimate Gohan: 22
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olliebalollie Jun 3 2014, 02:00 AM Post #52
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 So basically you have;

SS3 Gotenks being 30% stronger than Super Boo.
Ultimate Gohan being 39% stronger than Super Boo.
Ultimate Gohan being 12% stronger than SS3 Gotenks.

I generally agree with your concepts behind your theories, but the gaps are still debatable.



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+ Yusuke Jun 3 2014, 02:24 AM Post #53
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olliebaba
Jun 3 2014, 02:00 AM
So basically you have;

SS3 Gotenks being 30% stronger than Super Boo.
Ultimate Gohan being 39% stronger than Super Boo.
Ultimate Gohan being 12% stronger than SS3 Gotenks.

I generally agree with your concepts behind your theories, but the gaps are still debatable.

Fair enough.

Also, I find this also plays in nicely to my PL list.
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p123 Jun 5 2014, 05:00 PM Post #54
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I don't see any issues with 50x except if you try to make the Base Gotenks Post > Ssj Gotenks Pre > Buu > Base Gotenks Pre > Majin Vegeta chain work. If not for that, there really is zero issues with 50x boost. Perhaps Base Future Gohan > Ssj Kid Trunks is a pain, but that's it.
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+ Yusuke Jun 5 2014, 06:12 PM Post #55
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p123
Jun 5 2014, 05:00 PM
I don't see any issues with 50x except if you try to make the Base Gotenks Post > Ssj Gotenks Pre > Buu > Base Gotenks Pre > Majin Vegeta chain work. If not for that, there really is zero issues with 50x boost. Perhaps Base Future Gohan > Ssj Kid Trunks is a pain, but that's it.
It's not that there's any issues, other people prefer to use a lower SSJ multiplier like 10X Base or 5X Base. It works out better for some people.
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p123 Jun 5 2014, 07:03 PM Post #56
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If there's no major issue I wouldn't see why using anything else would make sense. Why run into that Kaioken problem if you don't have to?
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Vertical Jun 5 2014, 08:40 PM Post #57
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Yusuke Urameshi
Jun 5 2014, 06:12 PM
p123
Jun 5 2014, 05:00 PM
I don't see any issues with 50x except if you try to make the Base Gotenks Post > Ssj Gotenks Pre > Buu > Base Gotenks Pre > Majin Vegeta chain work. If not for that, there really is zero issues with 50x boost. Perhaps Base Future Gohan > Ssj Kid Trunks is a pain, but that's it.
It's not that there's any issues, other people prefer to use a lower SSJ multiplier like 10X Base or 5X Base. It works out better for some people.
So anyone not using a 50x multiplier is simply doing so out of personal preference? :errm:
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p123 Jun 5 2014, 08:47 PM Post #58
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Not necessarily. I mean, for the Gero situation, and the way the manga feels, I could see one thinking it was smaller. But I think those issue can be swept under the rug pretty easily. At least for me. The Gotenks mess is a different story. Better off discarded honestly. But yea for the most part yes.
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+ Yusuke Jun 5 2014, 08:48 PM Post #59
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 For me, I use a 5X SSJ multipler after the Saiyans train in the RoSaT to better suit my belief of Base Saiyans > Kaioshin > Piccolo as well as Base Gotenks Post > SSJ Gotenks Pre. Mostly to avoid having extremely over bloated PL's.

Also, once Goku has MSSJ, their really is no reason for him to use something primitive like Kaioken that puts strain on the user. Not to mention he wasn't going for the kill against Cell anyways.

@Vertical

I meant having a lower multiplier works better for others like me.
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p123 Jun 5 2014, 08:51 PM Post #60
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All MSSJ really does is allow them to suppress Super Saiyan like their base. 100% Ssj is still straining.
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