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How strong is Pocus?
Topic Started: May 29 2014, 01:09 PM (4,868 Views)
Alex D. Boss
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I was so tired discussing this. But you know what, you leave me no choice.

assasin
 
How am I ignoring statements if they don't exist in the first place?

They don't exist? I'm lolling at this. 1st you didn't even knew about Kaioshin being capable of one-shotting Frieza, and now this. You sure what you're saying?

Chapter: 449 (DBZ 255), P5.2
Kaioshin: “You mustn’t underestimate your opponent! Babidi gathers only strong warriors from everywhere and makes them his allies!”

This is Kaioshin right after saying how he is capable of one-shotting Frieza. There is no sign of saying him about the magic. He is terrified about the fighters Babidi has, and is scared to fight Pocus one on one.
assasin
 
Kaioshin, being out of the loop, knew next to nothing about Pocus. He if he was really that much stronger than the Base Saiyans (who later were stated by Beerus to be weaker than Freeza), than what argument does that hold?

Your argument contradicts this:

Chapter: 449 (DBZ 255), P13.3
Context: after Vegeta kills Pui-Pui
Kaioshin: “Th-that can’t be…Th-they’re this [strong]…”

Kaioshin can't believe his eyes how strong Vegeta was, and how he did managed to defeat Pocus on his own, meaning that he couldn't do it on his own.

If Kaioshin is so worried about Vegeta at base, what does that say about Frieza? You see how BS this BoG starting to get, when following the manga?

assasin
 
Battle of Gods canonicity is up for debate of course, but since Toriyama stated that he re-wrote the entire script, I don't see why that shouldn't be considered a valid statement, even if all the concepts in that film weren't his own.


I don't care what BoG states. I read the manga. I'm following the manga. What comes after from AT's mouth, should no f***s given.

assasin
 
Given the fact that both Kaioshin and Kabito both were shocked at the Saiyans' power, that's highly unlikely that they knew much about Saiyan abilities.

True. They don't know anything about Saiyan's power. Evidences showing Base Saiyans impressing him against Babidi's fighters. Thats why he admitted inferiority to Goku. And that proves later on the show. Kaioshin wants to gang up on Yakon, while Goku fights equally against him.

Emmeth
 
He wasn't worried, he was cautious. There's a significant difference. He knew that Boo could wake up if they used to much energy, and THAT'S why he was cautious.

Isn't this contradicted when SSJ2 Gohan's power wasn't enough to reveal Boo?
Edited by Alex D. Boss, May 31 2014, 05:57 PM.
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POOHEAD189
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I don't think Pui Pui is stronger than the Supreme Kai. I think the Kai just knows of Pui Pui's reputation and knows he should be wary of him. That and with the Majin upgrade, he might be very dangerous. Plus, they ARE trying to keep buu from being summoned. I'd be a bit freaked too.
Tha gaol agam ort. <3
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lazerbem
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POOHEAD189
May 31 2014, 06:11 PM
I don't think Pui Pui is stronger than the Supreme Kai. I think the Kai just knows of Pui Pui's reputation and knows he should be wary of him. That and with the Majin upgrade, he might be very dangerous. Plus, they ARE trying to keep buu from being summoned. I'd be a bit freaked too.
I can live with that. So as long as Pocus is at least close to Kaioshin, within a 20% gap at most
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+ Pyrus
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We're disregarding Babidi's assessment that Pui-Pui could deal with all three Saiyans and Kaioshin, right?
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SSJ
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Kamikaze Pyro
May 31 2014, 07:01 PM
We're disregarding Babidi's assessment that Pui-Pui could deal with all three Saiyans and Kaioshin, right?
They were suppressed on the hill, so i don't know.
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Super Saiyan
May 31 2014, 07:07 PM
Kamikaze Pyro
May 31 2014, 07:01 PM
We're disregarding Babidi's assessment that Pui-Pui could deal with all three Saiyans and Kaioshin, right?
They were suppressed on the hill, so i don't know.
We'd probably be delving into that whole Base Saiyan debate if we continued this, but it's up to you.
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sekzee
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SSJ Goku > SSJ Vegeta > SSJ Gohan ~> Dabura > Kaioshin > Piccolo > Yakon ~ Goku > Vegeta > Gohan > Pui Pui

So simple. Even though I would prefer Gohan as a SSJ2 vs. Dabura.
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DurararaFTW
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Well, Babidi told Dabura to eliminate all but the three strongest and Kaioshin. After which Dabura took out Piccolo and Kibito. Either he could sense their SSJ powers or he got it wrong or the Saiyans just didn't feel like suppressing their powers as much as the others.
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Vertical
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DurararaFTW
May 31 2014, 11:33 AM
Vertical
 
All this tells me is that they were informed of multiple great energy sources... but everything else tells me they were only aiming to drain one. Although you could easily stretch it to the point that they would've drained both combatants if both combatants displayed decent energy.
What is "everything else", again we don't see them talking to each other before this exchange.
Everything else is all the other points that we've discussed throughout this topic... do I really need to list them?

DurararaFTW
May 31 2014, 11:33 AM
When they hand it to Babidi he says "Good job, this is nearly full." And as you said they exceeded Babidi's expectations still. There was limited amount of energy they could gather and draining Gohan was enough. Them leaving after that does not mean they were only ever gonna drain the first likely fighter they came across and then report back.
"Ah, you filled it with energy! Good job! Now we are that much closer to Boo's ressurection!" - Viz translation

Nothing about it being nearly full.

Them leaving immediately after draining Gohan without being surprised at how much energy was drained actually completely implies they were planning to leave right after.


sekzee
May 31 2014, 09:36 PM
SSJ Goku > SSJ Vegeta > SSJ Gohan ~> Dabura > Kaioshin > Piccolo > Yakon ~ Goku > Vegeta > Gohan > Pui Pui
And yet... Kaioshin, knowing of Yakon and seeing him in action against Goku, still wants to gang up on him.

If he saw Goku was unable to use SSJ but was already superior to Yakon... surely he would've simply ended it himself there and then.

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sekzee
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Kaioshin was told not to interfere in more than once occasion, if I recall correctly.
Edited by sekzee, May 31 2014, 11:09 PM.
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* Ketchup Revenge
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Alex KloonBoss
May 31 2014, 05:54 PM
I was so tired discussing this. But you know what, you leave me no choice.

assasin
 
How am I ignoring statements if they don't exist in the first place?

They don't exist? I'm lolling at this. 1st you didn't even knew about Kaioshin being capable of one-shotting Frieza, and now this. You sure what you're saying?

Chapter: 449 (DBZ 255), P5.2
Kaioshin: “You mustn’t underestimate your opponent! Babidi gathers only strong warriors from everywhere and makes them his allies!”

This is Kaioshin right after saying how he is capable of one-shotting Frieza. There is no sign of saying him about the magic. He is terrified about the fighters Babidi has, and is scared to fight Pocus one on one.
What exactly does that prove?
Considering all the strongest warriors known (intergalactically) were in Freeza's crew, and all of them are dead by this time, that really doesn't prove anything. Even if Pocus was only as strong as Ginyu or even lower than that, that would still make him stronger than 99% of the fighters in the universe at that point in time. And in the context of Boo Era powers, he wouldn't need to be that strong.

Quote:
 
Your argument contradicts this:

Chapter: 449 (DBZ 255), P13.3
Context: after Vegeta kills Pui-Pui
Kaioshin: “Th-that can’t be…Th-they’re this [strong]…”

Kaioshin can't believe his eyes how strong Vegeta was, and how he did managed to defeat Pocus on his own, meaning that he couldn't do it on his own.

If Kaioshin is so worried about Vegeta at base, what does that say about Frieza? You see how BS this BoG starting to get, when following the manga?


How does my argument contradict that? If anything, it confirms it.
Kaioshin knew absolutely nothing about Saiyan base power or even Saiyan power at all.

Quote:
 
I don't care what BoG states. I read the manga. I'm following the manga. What comes after from AT's mouth, should no f***s given.

And the manga says nothing about Saiyan base power other than they're stronger than Kaioshin. That alone isn't enough evidence to say that Saiyan bases are stronger than Freeza.
Kaioshin is out of the loop to the point that I doubt he'd know about Freeza's higher forms. Kaiosama knew, but as I stated in a previous post, it was his job to know these things. If Kaioshin himself knows virtually nothing about Saiyan power, what makes us believe that he'd know anything about Freeza's higher forms, which was one thing that almost no one knew anything about?
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SSJ
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Kamikaze Pyro
May 31 2014, 07:11 PM
Super Saiyan
May 31 2014, 07:07 PM
Kamikaze Pyro
May 31 2014, 07:01 PM
We're disregarding Babidi's assessment that Pui-Pui could deal with all three Saiyans and Kaioshin, right?
They were suppressed on the hill, so i don't know.
We'd probably be delving into that whole Base Saiyan debate if we continued this, but it's up to you.
Not my cup of tea but eh.

If we want to claim that Babidi could sense, is it not fair to say he was going by their heavily suppressed powers? Unlike Kaioshin, Babidi has no clue about the Saiyans, nor their ability to turn SSJ. The only people he knew there were Kibito and Kaioshin. Unless Dabura has the ability to sense dormant power (which he doesn't), I find his statement to be irrelevant. It was stated that everybody was suppressed, so how can he make an accurate judgement?
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Alex D. Boss
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@Ketchup Revenge:

How come nothing says Kaioshin being weaker than the Base Saiyans? You think he would fight on his own against Goku?
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@Alex

Why don't you come up with your own arguments why Kaioshin is as weak as you say? All you do is repeat yourself.
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...

Pocus has to be about 4 times weaker than Yakon

And if Goku in his ssj was not suppressed with this 3000 thing according to kiri metric system then as I have Buu saga ssj goku a little bit stronger than CG mssj gohan about 1.2 times than Yakon who is supposed to be about roughly 3.75 times weaker than Goku as its power was shown to be 800 according to kiri . Thus I have Yakon somewhere semi perfect cell tier and Pocus somewhere Imperfect cell tier post absorbtions

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