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How strong is Pocus?
Topic Started: May 29 2014, 01:09 PM (4,870 Views)
lazerbem
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Pelador
May 30 2014, 05:50 PM
Seems to me that Kaioshin didn't know much about Pocus. He knew Babidi tended to pick strong fighters so he wanted to excerise caution. Plus for all he knew, Pocus could have had different transformations. But there was definitely a fair degree of under estimating Vegeta and the other Saiyans at the same time.

So do we all agree that he could only be around 16 at the very strongest barring any unknown transformations?
I tend to have it be something like this chain

16, Piccolo, Kaioshin, and Pocus are all in the same tier of power, more or less. Pocus holds the edge though

Yakon, SSJ Vegeta(First ROSAT), Semi-Perfect Cell, and Base Goku are in the same tier
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DurararaFTW
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Pelador
May 30 2014, 05:50 PM
Seems to me that Kaioshin didn't know much about Pocus. He knew Babidi tended to pick strong fighters so he wanted to excerise caution. Plus for all he knew, Pocus could have had different transformations. But there was definitely a fair degree of under estimating Vegeta and the other Saiyans at the same time.

So do we all agree that he could only be around 16 at the very strongest barring any unknown transformations?
At the very, very strongest. Personally don't see the need for Kaioshin or Pui Pui to exceed pre-ROSAT SSj Vegeta. Kaioshin was not what Piccolo thought he was, that seemed pretty clear to me.
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Alex D. Boss
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Pocus can also be at SSJ Goku Android arc tier. It doesn't matter as long as u have him above Kaioshin.
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Mihawk
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Super Saiyan
May 30 2014, 03:39 AM
* Irrelevant post incoming.


I find it interesting how we base power level opinions these days. Back in the old day, it was common for people to have the humans stronger than Final Form Freeza, and common for people to have Pui Pui ~ Android 16. These days it is more built upon lack of evidence, which is a more sound way of going about things. I may have to reconsider this Pui Pui business because I feel my opinion is outdated.


*End irrelevant post.


Alex KloonBoss
May 30 2014, 10:48 AM
Super Saiyan
May 30 2014, 03:39 AM
* Irrelevant post incoming.


I find it interesting how we base power level opinions these days. Back in the old day, it was common for people to have the humans stronger than Final Form Freeza, and common for people to have Pui Pui ~ Android 16. These days it is more built upon lack of evidence, which is a more sound way of going about things. I may have to reconsider this Pui Pui business because I feel my opinion is outdated.


*End irrelevant post.


Thats because the Shindeners are gone , and the Elite debaters don't think this seriously anymore. I mean look at KP's post lol. This forum became a dust.



I'm still on the side of hard evidence (Base Saiyans > Pocus > Kaioshin > Freeza) as Kaioshin didn't correct himself after the battle and continued to use him as a measuring stick after the battle (meaning he knew his strength, or wasn't wrong on his estimation). I'm on my last limbs though and done trying to convince people that there is a ton of evidence of evolution and little to no evidence of the Earth being 2,000 years old.

I guess it's just best to let people believe what they want to believe. This'll probably be my last post on the topic.

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DurararaFTW
May 30 2014, 01:20 PM
Again when checking Kibito and Gohan the exchange was "Are they the ones?" "No, not them. Their energy is too low." That tells me they were after more then one person at least.
All this tells me is that they were informed of multiple great energy sources... but everything else tells me they were only aiming to drain one. Although you could easily stretch it to the point that they would've drained both combatants if both combatants displayed decent energy.

Either way, they were only ever going to drain the energy of one match up... and then take off. That much is clear.

DurararaFTW
May 30 2014, 01:20 PM
As well, when they were flying away Yamu accurately assessed that with Gohan's energy Majin Buu resurrection was now at hand, so obviously that took away any point in staying further.
Accurately assessed? It was roughly half of what was needed...

DurararaFTW
May 30 2014, 01:20 PM
After killing Babidi said that Yamu brought a lot of energy as he expected. He probably didn't expect SSJ high but a lot nevertheless.
He tasked them with gathering energy... they gathered energy. Babidi still didn't have an accurate grasp on how much until it was in the ball.
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Alex D. Boss
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Itachi
May 30 2014, 08:30 PM
Super Saiyan
May 30 2014, 03:39 AM
* Irrelevant post incoming.


I find it interesting how we base power level opinions these days. Back in the old day, it was common for people to have the humans stronger than Final Form Freeza, and common for people to have Pui Pui ~ Android 16. These days it is more built upon lack of evidence, which is a more sound way of going about things. I may have to reconsider this Pui Pui business because I feel my opinion is outdated.


*End irrelevant post.


Alex KloonBoss
May 30 2014, 10:48 AM
Super Saiyan
May 30 2014, 03:39 AM
* Irrelevant post incoming.


I find it interesting how we base power level opinions these days. Back in the old day, it was common for people to have the humans stronger than Final Form Freeza, and common for people to have Pui Pui ~ Android 16. These days it is more built upon lack of evidence, which is a more sound way of going about things. I may have to reconsider this Pui Pui business because I feel my opinion is outdated.


*End irrelevant post.


Thats because the Shindeners are gone , and the Elite debaters don't think this seriously anymore. I mean look at KP's post lol. This forum became a dust.



I'm still on the side of hard evidence (Base Saiyans > Pocus > Kaioshin > Freeza) as Kaioshin didn't correct himself after the battle and continued to use him as a measuring stick after the battle (meaning he knew his strength, or wasn't wrong on his estimation). I'm on my last limbs though and done trying to convince people that there is a ton of evidence of evolution and little to no evidence of the Earth being 2,000 years old.

I guess it's just best to let people believe what they want to believe. This'll probably be my last post on the topic.

I know your belief. And like you said , this will be my last post either.
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+ Pyrus
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What's so unsettling about this, fellas? There's much evidence for both sides.
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* Ketchup Revenge
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Kamikaze Pyro
May 30 2014, 09:40 PM
What's so unsettling about this, fellas? There's much evidence for both sides.
What evidence?

Pocus never shows us anything impressive at all. Definitely nothing even close to First Form Freeza tier, who was capable of destroying planets with little to no effort at all. One could argue that he didn't have the opportunity, but he didn't even try anything when he was getting stomped by Vegeta. And even after he was getting stomped, he seemed to believe that he stood a chance.
Vegeta most certainly was holding back his ki, which explains why Kaioshin was so out of the loop.

The most that we see from Pocus is him killing Yamu, which really wouldn't take that much considering how weak Yamu is.

Kaioshin is trash at judging power. He knows next to nothing about the Saiyans at this point in time, and at this point in time, they are literally the strongest fighters in both the mortal realm and the cosmos.
Edited by Ketchup Revenge, May 31 2014, 12:28 AM.
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Alex D. Boss
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Kaioshin doesn't touch Pocus. So thats why Pocus makes Frieza his b***. I like to see evidence of Kaioshin being capable of defeating Pocus, which you haven't either. Its not that Pocus is weak, its just that the base saiyans are that strong. Base Saiyans like Vegeta being at Imperfect Cell tier ot 16 tier, can still one-shot someone who is at SSJ android arc tier.

Gotta love Pocus. What an total beast he is.
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lazerbem
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Alex KloonBoss
May 31 2014, 01:11 AM
Kaioshin doesn't touch Pocus. So thats why Pocus makes Frieza his b***. I like to see evidence of Kaioshin being capable of defeating Pocus, which you haven't either. Its not that Pocus is weak, its just that the base saiyans are that strong. Base Saiyans like Vegeta being at Imperfect Cell tier ot 16 tier, can still one-shot someone who is at SSJ android arc tier.

Gotta love Pocus. What an total beast he is.
You know what would be really awesome? If Pocus appeared in the Android Saga
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Crazy Awesome Legend

I really like his design actually. It would have been cool to see such a character have more of an active role rather than the gag character that he was.


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Alex KloonBoss
May 31 2014, 01:11 AM
Kaioshin doesn't touch Pocus. So thats why Pocus makes Frieza his b***. I like to see evidence of Kaioshin being capable of defeating Pocus, which you haven't either. Its not that Pocus is weak, its just that the base saiyans are that strong. Base Saiyans like Vegeta being at Imperfect Cell tier ot 16 tier, can still one-shot someone who is at SSJ android arc tier.

Gotta love Pocus. What an total beast he is.
There's absolutely no evidence for Pocus being impressive at all.
You can't judge a character's power by the quotes of someone who can't even sense another person who is right in front of his face.
Kaioshin is trash at sensing ki. He honestly couldn't sense that any of the Base Saiyans could handle Pui Pui and he blatantly could not sense Boo, who was floating in mist form above his head.

He also asked Goku if Gotenks was stronger than he was, which we know that Gotenks is at least several times stronger than Goku. He sensed Goku's SSj3 power earlier on, and couldn't even compare the two.

The only evidence that I need for my argument is the utter lack of evidence for the latter.

And simply out of curiosity, can someone please cite the quote where Kaioshin says that he could one-shot Freeza? I don't recall seeing this, nor have I ever seen a reference for this claim.
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The Assassin
May 31 2014, 02:43 AM
And simply out of curiosity, can someone please cite the quote where Kaioshin says that he could one-shot Freeza? I don't recall seeing this, nor have I ever seen a reference for this claim.

From the good ol' Strength Checker:


Quote:
 
Chapter: 445 (DBZ 251), P14.1-5
Context: after hearing that Boo destroyed hundreds of planets
Vegeta (thinking to himself): “Hmph…Even we Saiyans could do a thing like that…”
Kaioshin: “No, Vegeta. At the time, there were 5 Kaioshins. Any one of them was good enough to defeat someone of Freeza’s level in a single blow…Out of those Kaioshins, 4 were killed by Majin Boo.”
Goku: “Hieeh! A-amazin’…”
Vegeta: “Th-that bastard…So he can even read minds, huh?”
Edited by Kaboom, May 31 2014, 02:47 AM.
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lazerbem
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Pelador
May 31 2014, 02:25 AM
I really like his design actually. It would have been cool to see such a character have more of an active role rather than the gag character that he was.
He looks like Third Form Freeza, except not as alieny. Indeed, Babidi's minions were all pretty cool, what with the hax that Yakon and Dabra had along wth Pocus's attitude
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Kaboom
May 31 2014, 02:47 AM
The Assassin
May 31 2014, 02:43 AM
And simply out of curiosity, can someone please cite the quote where Kaioshin says that he could one-shot Freeza? I don't recall seeing this, nor have I ever seen a reference for this claim.

From the good ol' Strength Checker:


Quote:
 
Chapter: 445 (DBZ 251), P14.1-5
Context: after hearing that Boo destroyed hundreds of planets
Vegeta (thinking to himself): “Hmph…Even we Saiyans could do a thing like that…”
Kaioshin: “No, Vegeta. At the time, there were 5 Kaioshins. Any one of them was good enough to defeat someone of Freeza’s level in a single blow…Out of those Kaioshins, 4 were killed by Majin Boo.”
Goku: “Hieeh! A-amazin’…”
Vegeta: “Th-that bastard…So he can even read minds, huh?”
I'm not really trying to argue, but is there any evidence that he even knew about Final form Freeza?
I have a hard time believing that he knew about Freeza's real power considering that he doesn't seem to pay much attention to stuff that goes on in the Mortal Realm. Evidence to this is him knowing next to nothing about Super Saiyans and even Cell.

He's proven continuously that he's not "all-seeing", and seems to rely on hear-say over his actual godly insight.
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