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How strong is Pocus?
Topic Started: May 29 2014, 01:09 PM (4,871 Views)
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DurararaFTW
May 30 2014, 09:05 AM
Vertical
May 30 2014, 07:30 AM
DurararaFTW
May 30 2014, 07:22 AM
QUOTED LINK REMOVED ....because I'm a good boy.

He says "how many hundreds of people did it take to get this." That makes me think they at least weren't meant to drain one likely smuck and come back.
But the fact that he regrets killing them means he had some other plan to gather the rest... just not one as time efficient.
Yeah but they did much more then Babidi but they were at least suppose to use the damn thing. Babidi didn't send them to the World Tournament to have a good time. They were given a meter to guage energy. Videl didn't interest them. In their suppressed states Kibito and Gohan barely made their meter go up an inch. They were there to attack people with powerlevels of well beyond Videl. Babidi at least knew there were people like that on Earth but instead decided to go through the rooster of the previous World tournament and recruit one of the least promising prospects.

You're telling me this same guy could've just gonna waltzed into the world trade organization and enslaved Freeza but felt he was too weak to aid him?
How are you even sure what they were doing was Babidi's plan, and not their own?

Babidi believes they must've drained hundreds of people, and yet from the get-go Yami/Spop were waiting to attack one guy. As soon as they got that one guy, they took off.

To be honest, Kaioshin seems to know more about Yami/Spop's plan than Babidi does... to the point where I would not be surprised if he casually came across [or interrupted] them pre-tournament (in disguise of course... a cool hooded cloak thing where you can't see the face)... and let them know that someone of incredible energy was entering... thus saving lives, and having the situation completely in his control (HAH!).

As for the meter... it would've led them to any decent source of energy if it existed... or allowed them to avoid one's beyond their reach.


As for the Freeza thing... what use is Freeza? Whatever Babidi-tachi were doing during those centuries away from Earth... it wasn't gathering energy. For whatever reason, they left that all to the citizens of the Earth. So, if they aren't going to use him for gathering energy, he'd have to be a threat, or at least stronger than Babidi's weakest minion to be worth enslaving, right?
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DurararaFTW
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In the anime they keep going on about the one yes, in the manga they just say the ones (plural) when guaging Gohan and Kibito and just look at their meter. That can merely refer to "people worth draining energy from." Which Videl definitely wasn't. Nor was Krillin's opponent, who was an a***** but went much further then Spopovich in the previous tournament. I don't see evidence that Babidi actually gave them the meter to avoid any source of real energy and they mistook his orders.
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DurararaFTW
May 30 2014, 11:27 AM
In the anime they keep going on about the one yes, in the manga they just say the ones (plural) when guaging Gohan and Kibito and just look at their meter. That can merely refer to "people worth draining energy from." Which Videl definitely wasn't. Nor was Krillin's opponent, who was an a***** but went much further then Spopovich in the previous tournament.
I'd agree that they didn't know who specifically they were looking for... just for someone worth draining. Someone; as implied by the fact that Yami yells "It's him!" and they run away after draining a single person. And the fact that alternate candidates that are superior to pre-Majin Yami/Spop exist supports my claim that they were enslaved by happenstance.

DurararaFTW
May 30 2014, 11:27 AM
I don't see evidence that Babidi actually gave them the meter to avoid any source of real energy
I wasn't suggesting there was evidence. I was giving an expanded reason to have one in the first place.

DurararaFTW
May 30 2014, 11:27 AM
and they mistook his orders.
Mistook his orders? Sorry, I don't understand this one.
Edited by Vertical, May 30 2014, 11:43 AM.
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Vertical
May 30 2014, 11:42 AM
DurararaFTW
May 30 2014, 11:27 AM
In the anime they keep going on about the one yes, in the manga they just say the ones (plural) when guaging Gohan and Kibito and just look at their meter. That can merely refer to "people worth draining energy from." Which Videl definitely wasn't. Nor was Krillin's opponent, who was an a***** but went much further then Spopovich in the previous tournament.
I'd agree that they didn't know who specifically they were looking for... just for someone worth draining. Someone; as implied by the fact that Yami yells "It's him!" and they run away after draining a single person. And the fact that alternate candidates that are superior to pre-Majin Yami/Spop exist supports my claim that they were enslaved by happenstance.
I don't think they were after anyone specifically at the tournament. But as it happened the only person there that made the meter that Babidi gave them even twitch in the slightest also instantly filled it up completely. That made things rather straight forward.

And I feel it's a bit much to presume that they just "happened" on martial artist by accident on their search for strong people. Spopovich and Yamu were probably specifically chosen. But not because they were the most evil, just easy to control. Given that Spopovich was doing it's own thing until Yamu reigned him in, Vegeta never once let the "enslaving" change him and Dabura defied Babidi's orders in the end too and Yakon was just a wild beast anyway, I don't think Babidi's mindcontrol was as absolute as it's made out here. Yamu and Pui Pui were probably just particuraly weakwilled in addition to straight-up weak.
Edited by DurararaFTW, May 30 2014, 12:30 PM.
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DurararaFTW
May 30 2014, 12:29 PM
I don't think they were after anyone specifically at the tournament. But as it happened the only person there that made the meter that Babidi gave them even twitch in the slightest also instantly filled it up completely. That made things rather straight forward.
If they knew it was filled (which I'm not sure they did considering all that is said is "We've sucked out enough energy")... surely Babidi would've known it was filled when they gave it to him.... and surely he would've known how much that would go towards reviving Buu.

It didn't seem at all like they planned to drain any more that one person. Not once were they surprised by the amount they got from Gohan. "We've sucked out enough energy" "Let's go". No, "Wow, that one guy filled it up" or anything even remotely close to that.

DurararaFTW
May 30 2014, 12:29 PM
And I feel it's a bit much to presume that they just "happened" on martial artist by accident on their search for strong people. Spopovich and Yamu were probably specifically chosen. But not because they were the most evil, just easy to control. Given that Spopovich was doing it's own thing until Yamu reigned him in, Vegeta never once let the "enslaving" change him and Dabura defied Babidi's orders in the end too and Yakon was just a wild beast anyway, I don't think Babidi's mindcontrol was as absolute as it's made out here. Yamu and Pui Pui were probably just particuraly weakwilled in addition to straight-up weak.
Why actively choose Yami and Spop though? If no one at the tournament pre-SSJ2 Gohan could even register anything worth noting on that meter... surely Yami and Spop didn't. But somehow Babidi-tachi sought them out specifically? A far more likely scenario is that Yami and Spop happened to be staying in that village/town/whatever where Baibid's ship appeared... and when everyone else was slaughtered (and mangled and left on display for all the young Japanese to see), they displayed promise as slave candidates. After enslaving them, he simply sent them on their way to gather energy.

For Babidi to plan something so specific as to order Yami and Spop to the tournament to drain a single high energy source... and then prematurely kill them... and not know how much energy they retrieved... seems a bit out of reach. Not to mention how clueless he was about the Earth and it's recent/current inhabitants... but somehow he knew there was a tournament coming up and that people with really high energy were going to be there.
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Vertical
May 30 2014, 12:47 PM
DurararaFTW
May 30 2014, 12:29 PM
I don't think they were after anyone specifically at the tournament. But as it happened the only person there that made the meter that Babidi gave them even twitch in the slightest also instantly filled it up completely. That made things rather straight forward.
If they knew it was filled (which I'm not sure they did considering all that is said is "We've sucked out enough energy")... surely Babidi would've known it was filled when they gave it to him.... and surely he would've known how much that would go towards reviving Buu.

It didn't seem at all like they planned to drain any more that one person. Not once were they surprised by the amount they got from Gohan. "We've sucked out enough energy" "Let's go". No, "Wow, that one guy filled it up" or anything even remotely close to that.

DurararaFTW
May 30 2014, 12:29 PM
And I feel it's a bit much to presume that they just "happened" on martial artist by accident on their search for strong people. Spopovich and Yamu were probably specifically chosen. But not because they were the most evil, just easy to control. Given that Spopovich was doing it's own thing until Yamu reigned him in, Vegeta never once let the "enslaving" change him and Dabura defied Babidi's orders in the end too and Yakon was just a wild beast anyway, I don't think Babidi's mindcontrol was as absolute as it's made out here. Yamu and Pui Pui were probably just particuraly weakwilled in addition to straight-up weak.
Why actively choose Yami and Spop though? If no one at the tournament pre-SSJ2 Gohan could even register anything worth noting on that meter... surely Yami and Spop didn't. But somehow Babidi-tachi sought them out specifically? A far more likely scenario is that Yami and Spop happened to be staying in that village/town/whatever where Baibid's ship appeared... and when everyone else was slaughtered (and mangled and left on display for all the young Japanese to see), they displayed promise as slave candidates. After enslaving them, he simply sent them on their way to gather energy.

For Babidi to plan something so specific as to order Yami and Spop to the tournament to drain a single high energy source... and then prematurely kill them... and not know how much energy they retrieved... seems a bit out of reach. Not to mention how clueless he was about the Earth and it's recent/current inhabitants... but somehow he knew there was a tournament coming up and that people with really high energy were going to be there.
Again when checking Kibito and Gohan the exchange was "Are they the ones?" "No, not them. Their energy is too low." That tells me they were after more then one person at least. As well, when they were flying away Yamu accurately assessed that with Gohan's energy Majin Buu resurrection was now at hand, so obviously that took away any point in staying further.

After killing Babidi said that Yamu brought a lot of energy as he expected. He probably didn't expect SSJ high but a lot nevertheless.
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Alex D. Boss
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The Assassin
May 30 2014, 03:21 AM
Toriyama stated that Freeza was so strong because he was a mutant. So this pretty much places him in a league all his own when it comes to mortals. Even Saiyans on average weren't anywhere near Freeza's weakest.
It's hard to believe that Pui Pui was anywhere near Freeza's power as well.

We also need to consider the fact that Planet Voon had the same gravity complex as Planet Vegeta, which was 10x Earth... in addition to Pui Pui's race not being known as great warriors like the Saiyans. Otherwise, we probably would've heard more about his race.
I think he's lucky if he's as strong as first form Freeza, who was well above even the strongest experienced ki users in the known universe.

Pocus thought that the (Base Saiyans) were the humans. Just because he is confidences about himself, doesn't mean he is weak.
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Everest
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Pocus is weaker than Freeza
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Gracek90
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Then why he didn't impressed anybody? He appeared with Babidi yet still his strenght was not mentioned by anyone. Even Kuririn did not seem to be impressed by him.
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Gracek90
May 30 2014, 04:51 PM
Then why he didn't impressed anybody? He appeared with Babidi yet still his strenght was not mentioned by anyone. Even Kuririn did not seem to be impressed by him.
You can't sense the power of Majins as seen with Spopovich
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Alex D. Boss
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Gracek90
May 30 2014, 04:51 PM
Then why he didn't impressed anybody? He appeared with Babidi yet still his strenght was not mentioned by anyone. Even Kuririn did not seem to be impressed by him.

So your argument is Krillin not finding Pocus interesting? This is contradicted by Kaioshin, so your argument is mute.
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Why didn't Yeast Kaioshin freak out or even make a disparaging remark when he saw Pui-Pui outside?
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Is it not possible that he knew that SSJ2 Gohan would be able to make short work of Pocus? He knew of the Saiyans and there transformations, so it's not a stretch to consider the possibility that he was counting on them for the later stages. As for the suggestion for ganging up on Pocus, maybe he wanted to try and conserve as much of the Saiyans' energy as possible for Stages 2 and 3.

@Majins can't be sensed - Didn't Piccolo sense Majin Vegeta and compare him to SSJ2 Kid Gohan?
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Kamikaze Pyro
May 30 2014, 05:13 PM
Why didn't Yeast Kaioshin freak out or even make a disparaging remark when he saw Pui-Pui outside?
Because, even inside the ship, Kaioshin wasn't really panicked. He just warned them to take Pocus seriously, he wasn't scared of him.

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@Majins can't be sensed - Didn't Piccolo sense Majin Vegeta and compare him to SSJ2 Kid Gohan?

The Majins are inconsistent, tbh. Spopovich can tank a broken neck while Majin Vegeta is basically down and out from a broken arm. I guess you could say that Majin Vegeta wasn't totally under Babidi's control?
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Seems to me that Kaioshin didn't know much about Pocus. He knew Babidi tended to pick strong fighters so he wanted to excerise caution. Plus for all he knew, Pocus could have had different transformations. But there was definitely a fair degree of under estimating Vegeta and the other Saiyans at the same time.

So do we all agree that he could only be around 16 at the very strongest barring any unknown transformations?


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