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How strong is Pocus?
Topic Started: May 29 2014, 01:09 PM (4,873 Views)
DurararaFTW
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Pelador
May 29 2014, 04:07 PM
Picollo stated that kaioshin was stronger than him. Picollo at that point was probably around Android 16 or maybe a bit less. Judging from Picollo's anxiety about fighting him, it's possible that kaioshin was near to Semi Cell. If Pocus is stronger than him then that means Vegeta has made some serious power gains in seven years.
Piccolo said that because he thought he was the Supreme Kai. But Shin neither as strong or as old as his office implies, nor was ever meant to be the one and only Supreme Kai. The Supreme Kai is the counterpart to the God of Destruction, but Beerus has been around for at least 15 generations of Supreme Kais and of this generation, Shin was a subordinate member to another Supreme Kai and was weaker then his equals. He's only THE Supreme Kai because unlike the others he was neither worth aborbing nor killing. Someone on Kamiccolo's level (to say nothing of Semperfect Cell) would never think to use someone as weak as Freeza as a measuring stick for his power. Let alone being able to to fight at 10x gravity.
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Crazy Awesome Legend

Picollo can sense ki. He knew how strong Kaioshin was. It wasn't just about respect in my opinion. He knew that he was outclassed. I put Picollo at 16s level because it's been seven years since his Rosat training. He had to have increased his power in that span of time. Now maybe Kaioshin and Pocus aren't quite at semi cell's level but they should both be stronger than 16 judging by Picollo's anxiety.


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Pelador
May 29 2014, 04:29 PM
Picollo can sense ki. He knew how strong Kaioshin was. It wasn't just about respect in my opinion. He knew that he was outclassed. I put Picollo at 16s level because it's been seven years since his Rosat training. He had to have increased his power in that span of time. Now maybe Kaioshin and Pocus aren't quite at semi cell's level but they should both be stronger than 16 judging by Picollo's anxiety.
Piccolo can't sense Kaioshin's ki. None of the Zet-Senshi can.
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Emmeth
May 29 2014, 05:12 PM
Pelador
May 29 2014, 04:29 PM
Picollo can sense ki. He knew how strong Kaioshin was. It wasn't just about respect in my opinion. He knew that he was outclassed. I put Picollo at 16s level because it's been seven years since his Rosat training. He had to have increased his power in that span of time. Now maybe Kaioshin and Pocus aren't quite at semi cell's level but they should both be stronger than 16 judging by Picollo's anxiety.
Piccolo can't sense Kaioshin's ki. None of the Zet-Senshi can.
Not sure if this was in the manga, but I thought both Dende and Piccolo later sensed him on the lookout?
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魔王子

I think Pui Pui is a little b****. Stronger than Captain Ginyu, but still weaker than Freeza's first form.
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DurararaFTW
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May 29 2014, 05:28 PM
Emmeth
May 29 2014, 05:12 PM
Pelador
May 29 2014, 04:29 PM
Picollo can sense ki. He knew how strong Kaioshin was. It wasn't just about respect in my opinion. He knew that he was outclassed. I put Picollo at 16s level because it's been seven years since his Rosat training. He had to have increased his power in that span of time. Now maybe Kaioshin and Pocus aren't quite at semi cell's level but they should both be stronger than 16 judging by Picollo's anxiety.
Piccolo can't sense Kaioshin's ki. None of the Zet-Senshi can.
Not sure if this was in the manga, but I thought both Dende and Piccolo later sensed him on the lookout?
Only in the anime. In the manga we don't chevk in with the look-out until Goku wakes up.
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Crazy Awesome Legend

If Picollo can't sense him then that changes everything. But I don't believe Kaioshin is much weaker than Cyborg 17 to be able to fell Freeza in one blow. Which could put Pocus at 16's level. Around the same place that I have Picollo. That could work.


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Alex D. Boss
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Pocus at Android 16 level is acceptable.
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DurararaFTW
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Pelador
May 29 2014, 05:46 PM
If Picollo can't sense him then that changes everything. But I don't believe Kaioshin is much weaker than Cyborg 17 to be able to fell Freeza in one blow. Which could put Pocus at 16's level. Around the same place that I have Picollo. That could work.
SSJ Vegeta was waaay weaker then Android 17 and could definitely fell Freeza with a single blow. Trunks Saga Trunks seemed close if not at that level already.
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I don't agree with that. It's debatable whether Android 19 was even as strong as Freeza and Vegeta took his time with him. Only reason Trunks dispatched Freeza so easily was because of his sword. Also I don't have pre rosat Vegeta as that much weaker than 17. The energy drain of initial SSJ played a part in 18 taking him down like she did. Until then he was holding his own.


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May 29 2014, 06:19 PM
I don't agree with that. It's debatable whether Android 19 was even as strong as Freeza and Vegeta took his time with him. Only reason Trunks dispatched Freeza so easily was because of his sword. Also I don't have pre rosat Vegeta as that much weaker than 17. The energy drain of initial SSJ played a part in 18 taking him down like she did. Until then he was holding his own.
King Cold was very clearly proven wrong that Trunks' sword was the source of his power. That same sword didn't do jack against Goku and Piccolo thought Vegeta stronger then Goku, after three more years of intense training. And any way, that same sword shattered on Android 18's sleeve. And Kamiccolo and 17 are stronger still. So I really don't see why we'd need to go aaaall the way up to Semi-Perfect Cell's level for someone that can supposedly oneshot Freeza but is woefully unimpressive beyond that.

Keep in mind, Android 17 doubted 18 could handle Vegeta+the other Z-fighters. Semiperfect Cell was totally comfortable with taking on 17, 18 and Piccolo all at once. They were nothing to him.
Edited by DurararaFTW, May 29 2014, 06:43 PM.
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@Pelador not sure if you realize but you've basically opened a thread that has been intensely debated since the movie came new DBZ movie came out. People basically say Kaioshin was underestimating himself and he's actually stronger than Pocus. It's based on Beers saying Goku doesn't look like he's stronger than Freeza in his suppressed base form.

When relating to Pocus in particular, I don't believe the argument really adds up of him being overly scared since he was arrogant when he spoke about being stronger than Freeza. If he's talking down to Freeza like he's nothing, why would he be paranoid of someone weaker than Freeza? Basically the paranoid argument doesn't add up.

Before battle (without doubt) Kaioshin believes Pocus > Freeza
After battle (without doubt) he confirms that he estimated the saiyans wrong and shows no indication of estimating Pocus wrong.

So yeah he is weaker than Pocus.

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Just a thought:
If Babidi only gathers the strongest fighters in the Universe.... but he never enslaved Freeza while clearly having the capability to enslave characters undeniably far more powerful (Dabura/Vegeta)... shouldn't that be enough to say that: Pocus > Freeza?
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Kaioshin merely assumes Babidi has gathered the strongest fighters. He doesn't even know who Pui Pui is. You could make an argument for Yakon though since Kaioshin has at least heard of him.
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May 29 2014, 11:34 PM
Just a thought:
If Babidi only gathers the strongest fighters in the Universe.... but he never enslaved Freeza while clearly having the capability to enslave characters undeniably far more powerful (Dabura/Vegeta)... shouldn't that be enough to say that: Pocus > Freeza?
He was completely unable to enslave Vegeta. Vegeta LET the spell happen, shrugged off Babidi's orders as he saw fit and openly rebelled against him when he had gotten what he wanted out of the arrangement. And even though Buu has been interred on Earth all along, he didn't exactly target the Earth's greatest fighters did he? Even if he somehow didn't know about Vegeta and Piccolo, Master Shen has been a much more noteworthy martial artist and much more powerful then Spopovich for the past 100 years.

And Dabura by himself does not represent a trend.
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